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Crystal Clear Treatment Plans that Wow Patients and are Easy to Understand – PDP049

As our level of Dentistry gets more comprehensive or complex, sometimes it is useful to write a treatment plan letter to your patient. In some practices, this is considered absolutely essential.

Full episode with great gems from Dr Jorge Cardoso

Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!

The problem with writing treatment plan letters to your patients is that….it’s not easy! It takes time. It takes thought. You need to come up with solutions to the unique and complex problems for our patients, and be able to present an estimate of fees at the same time.

Not only that, but the letter should ideally be easy to understand, visual, detailed enough to be valuable but at the same time concise enough not to complicate it.

Oh and by the way…after all that time and effort, the patient may not proceed with treatment. There goes that Saturday afternoon away from family, totally wasted, right?

I found a solution. Kind of. It’s called MakeMeClear and it generates easy to understand, visual and beautiful treatment plan reports and letters. Once I got slick at using Make Me Clear, I still found it takes time. There is no shortcut/hack to good treatment planning. But there is a shortcut to creating wonderful letters that increase your case acceptance. Thank you, MakeMeClear!

Protrusive Dental Pearl – Do the 21 Day Free Trial for MakeMeClear and do not make the same mistakes I did of not taking action! (It will be more clear when you listen to the episode).

All of the Protruserati clan get 25% OFF the monthly or Annual plan with the code ‘protrusive‘!

If your dental practice subscribes to MakeMeClear then all of the associates and Specialists can use the same membership. Let that sink in! Thank you to Jorge for this awesome deal.

Click here to check out a sample report / example treatment plan letter produced using MakeMeClear.

I am joined by Dr Jorge Cardoso, founder of MakeMeClear, to discuss:

  • How and When to Write Letters to patients – is it always?
  • What about when there is more than one option – how can you put that in a treatment plan letter without it being confusing?
  • What is the role of digital smile simulation images?
  • What is you give a ‘global fee’ or ‘ballpark figure’ but things turn out more complex than anticipated?

So many great themes of challenges with comprehensive Dentistry discussed with Jorge.

If you missed his eBook I gave out in the last episode, check out 16 Steps to get More Treatment Plans Accepted Today.

If you enjoyed this episode, you will love Think Comprehensive with Zak Kara.

Click below for full episode transcript: 

Opening Snippet: One advice that I wish I knew that out when I was starting comprehensive dentistry is that the worst thing that can happen to you is to start to be successful in comprehensive dentistry. That's the worst thing. Because success in comprehensive dentistry brings a lot of complexity. Exactly what you said...

Jaz’s Introduction: When you start doing more comprehensive dentistry, there comes a point where just giving a verbal treatment plan to a patient just doesn’t cut it and you have to start writing letters. Now, this can be a very frustrating process. Now, of course, there’s a couple of benefits of writing letters, it helps with patient communication. And I think it really does help the patient’s, hopefully if the letters are good, understand the plan more. But secondly, it’s good for consent. And it’s I know, it’s a shame to say this, but sometimes a letter is not just for the patient, it’s for some potential lawyers should something down the line not go to plan. So it’s both for the patient, and unfortunately, medical legal, especially as your plans become more comprehensive. Now, the problem with writing letters is that it takes so much time like I sometimes spend weekends locked up in my office away from my son and my wife, my family. And I’m just doing treatment plans. I’m actually just doing these letters, and I’m putting them in the right slot in the letter. And yes, you have your templates and whatnot. But it still needs some thought and some choreography within the treatment plans within your pages or Word document or whatever you use. So it takes a lot of time. And it’s particularly frustrating if your patient doesn’t read the letter, or you put all the effort in and you know, the patient never comes back and you’ve invested all this time, but you could have been doing something else. And that’s the biggest issue with that. So Protruserati, today I’m really excited to share with you something really cool. Something has completely changed the way I present my letters now why make my letters now and I’m so so excited to share this how to write crystal clear treatment plan that is that wow patients and are easy to understand. Welcome, Protruserati to Episode 49 of the Protrusive Dental podcast and yes, you finally have a name so the fans and listeners of the Protrusive Dental podcast, you are from now on henceforth known as the Protruserati. And so do a massive shout out to Karl Walker-Finch. That’s Karl Walker-Finch. Buddy, Thank you so much for the suggestion on the Protrusive Dental community Facebook group. And thanks to everyone who send in your sort of messages and emails and sort of suggestions. I love them all I really, really appreciate you. But the one, that one was Protruserati by Karl Walker-Finch. So thanks so much, Karl. The last few weeks have been a kind of funny for me, a family member at home has tested positive for COVID. And soon as I found out, I’ve been isolating. So I’m coming towards the end of my isolation, if you wonder why I’m suddenly making a lot more content is because I’ve been off. So I’ve been quite productive. But it’s also been great to spend more time with my wife and my son. And the usual things that you do. It’s like it is locked down for me because I can’t leave the home I am you know, it’s like what it was in the peak of you know, April. But it’s so much better because I kind of know when it’s finishing. So it’s pretty good. I’m more focus. And it’s nice to know exactly when I’m going back to work. So it’s not been too bad. And I’ve made the most of it, I’ve thought and thankfully my family member is completely fine. And we’re all in good health. And there’s nothing more important than that, because health is wealth. So because I’ve actually had more time off, I’ve also been working on the practice rather than in the practice. So I can now work on my systems, how I communicate to patients. So I discovered makemeclear, which has been just amazing. And don’t worry, we didn’t talk all about that today. And it’s basically a online platform where you can generate these beautiful looking very easy to understand really clear treatment plan letters and reports for your patients. And it’s just revolutionized the way I do my dentistry now, how I present my dentistry. Of course, last week with Zak, we talked about treatment plan presentation, but you still need to give a letter for these comprehensive cases. And I found no better way than making letters than with makemeclear. And I’ve got the founder Dr. Jorge Cardoso on the show today to talk about the genesis of makemeclear. And so the Protrusive Dental pearl for this episode is check out makemeclear, it’s makemeclear.com and sign up for the 21 day free trial. We’re talking this episode about the mistakes I made because when I signed up to makemeclear initially, you do the 21 day trial, but I didn’t actually act until day 16. I had to kind of ask George for an extension because what happened was that I found that when you actually log in to makemeclear, you actually have to do the charting of your patient. And I was massively turned off by this. I was like what I have to chart the patient again like they’re already on my practice management software. Now the chart the base chart again, and chart the treatment plan again, this is crazy. This is not time efficient I thought right? I couldn’t be farther from the truth because when you’re doing comprehensive treatment planning is something that I used to do when I used to work with someone called Dave Winkler who’s a really top guy. Hi, Dave, if you’re listening, who’s also good buddies with Corey Fran top notch dentist in London, and the way they do the letters, they do a tooth by tooth prognosis. So like, you know, upper left seven is in this situation, upper left six, so you’re counting for every single tooth. And that’s like the most ultimate level of treatment planning, or even the most ultimate level of consenting a patient so that they know exactly what’s the situation of every single tooth that’s like the gold standard, right? So when I overcame the fact that it’s a double chart, and when I actually produce my first plan, I was amazed. My reception team was amazed. And importantly, my patient was amazed. And I’m now doing about 15-20 plans now. And I tell you, I can’t get tired of these plans. They’re just amazing. So I want to share with you exactly the benefits of that. But even if you don’t take any action, and you don’t do the free trial or anything like that, you will learn a lot from Jorge. Dr. Jorge Cardoso. Today, he has a very comprehensive dentist base in Portugal. And I kind of asked him questions like, “Hey, does every single patient need a treatment plan letter? Or is it for certain patients? What about photos and simulation photos? Are they a good thing? Are there any downside to that? And what about when you make a comprehensive treatment plan and you give them a global fee then something doesn’t go to plan, tooth fractures, it needs a root canal, How do you account for that? Like, how do you become a better communicator for when things could potentially go wrong? And the fact we discussed in the episode actually is that the more Dentistry you do, the more complex you go, the more things can go wrong. And when they do go wrong, the more catastrophically they can go wrong. So we talk about those aspects of communicating with patients. And of course, me being of a certain ethnicity. I kind of begged Jorge Cardoso for a discount for the Protruserati and I can say he that he caved in. So anyone who signs up for make me clear, as a listener of the protrusive Dental podcast or as a Protruserati, you can get 25% off by using the coupon code protrusive, which is so easy to remember, just make sure you spell it right, because I actually see how people end up on my website and on Google, like half the people spell protrusive wrong. So spell protrusive correctly, please. So yeah, for those who are interested, and they like the software, as much as I’ve loved it, but make sure you don’t pay full price, use the coupon protrusive for 25%. Off. That’s for lifetime. So I hope you guys enjoyed the chat. And I’ll catch you in the outro.

Main Interview:

[Jaz]
Jorge Cardoso, Welcome to the Protrusive Dental podcast, how are you?

[Jorge]
I’m very fine. Thank you, Jaz. Thank you for having me. I’m really looking forward for a chat with you.

[Jaz]
I’m super excited.

[Jorge]
I’m on social media, and it’s your really fun chat to follow.

[Jorge]
I really appreciate that George. But George today is about speaking about treatment plans. And I think the what we’re gonna discuss i think is gonna blow everyone’s mind because we’ve talked about this already. But I’m really, really excited to share this with everyone else. Because what’s happened since I learned about you and what you have going on keeping the secret a little bit, I suppose. But it really has blown me away. And I’m going to share my little journey as how I went on a high and a low and then a very much a high again, I’ve been telling all my colleagues at the moment, but I want to share this on a podcast. And this is huge, but the main theme, and the title really is how to make crystal clear treatment plans. So we’re gonna talk about that. But before we get into that, Jorge, please tell the people listening and watching where you work, your background, because I know you spend some time in the UK as well. Give us all that background for us.

[Jorge]
Well, my name is Jorge Cardoso. I got my dental degree from Porto University, which is in north of Portugal. That was in 2002. And in 2005, I went to the distance learning program at King’s College in London. So I did an MClindent in prosthodontics. So I worked through in Portugal and I lived there during the four years I did the MClindent. And then I eventually ended up spending like one week, a month working in London in central London. And then eventually I stay connected. I stayed connected to King’s College where I still do some lecturing. And my private practice is mainly comprehensive interdisciplinary dentistry, which is what I love. And this is also one of the reasons why I make the software was developed. So that’s it. I lived in Portugal and my clinic is five minutes from the ocean. So it’s a lovely place to live at work.

[Jaz]
That’s amazing. And I just want to touch on one point you made there. So at one stage you were doing your MClindent. But then you’re also commuting back to Portugal. Did I catch that right?

[Jorge]
Yeah, because the MClindent at King’s College you can do like a two year full time or four year distance learning. So eventually I had to spend in London about, I would say, one month every year during three, four years. So it was manageable. And also I could not afford not work. So I had to because I had just opened my practice. So I was paying the bills of my practice and also doing the distance learning. And it was very nice, because I’ve met a lot of amazing people that are still friends today. And it was one of the best professional experiences of my life for sure.

[Jaz]
That’s great. And I’m glad you know, you gain from that MClindent, and I’m able to balance working in Portugal. Family life, was that a challenge of balancing family and being away for a month at a time? How was that?

[Jorge]
Yeah, it was not that I was that mature way, because we went there for chunks for periods of time. So I stay like remember for a full two weeks and come back and stay again for full two weeks. But it was a lot of online work. We had a lot of assignments. And it was it was challenging, because I was just opening my practice hired work for I was at work as an associate for other practices. And I decided to work for myself. And the reason why I decided to work for myself, because I mean, you know that if you want to do comprehensive interdisciplinary dentistry, you have to be in control of pretty much. I also don’t say anything, everything, but pretty much the main parts of the treatment. So I wanted to open the practice and then invite people to come here and work and do like a lot of brainstorming local to be able to perform the dentistry in terms of the standards that I wanted. So it was challenging. It was very challenging. It was very, it was four years extremely challenging, because growing up practice, opening a practice and still studying it was the money, but I gained a lot in terms of literature knowledge, I gained a lot from that. And it was it’s still it is something that I still take advantage on today in courses and stuff like that.

[Jaz]
And now from doing that distance learning, does that give you a title of specialist? Or does that just give MClindent Prosth like am I right that you need an mrd? Or is that not right or?

[Jorge]
That does not give me a title of specialty, it gives me a MClindent But what because I don’t practice in London anymore. But if I wanted to, I think that the next step towards working specialty was much shorter. I’m not exactly how sure it was but it was shorter.

[Jaz]
So overall, with your prosthodontics training, and you told us that your interest lies in comprehensive dentistry. And it’s a topic I’ve talked about in a couple of episodes before about how to think comprehensively as a dentist. And when you can diagnose more, you can treat more and the bottom line of treating more is nothing for me anyway to do with finances at all. It’s for to do more dentistry, the root of what you love to change people’s lives and to make a real difference and impact because single tooth entry gets boring.

[Jorge]
And to have fun.

[Jaz]
Exactly

[Jorge]
Comprehensive interdisciplinary dentistry is extremely fun, all the nuances, all the engineering, all the biology, all the [inaudible]. It’s amazing how you have to contact with all the different specialists. And for me, it really lights me up being able to go to do comprehensive. That’s exactly as you said, I mean, single tooth dentistry, it’s important as you get out of the college. So first you learn to do a cavity then you do a crown, then one veneer, then six veneers. But all of a sudden you realize that most of the patients, most of the actual patients, you cannot solve the case functionally with only six anterior veneers, you need to understand more than you need to understand about full mouth. And once you understand about full mouth, you realize that’s one thing, there’s one big tool that you can use, that makes everything even more complicated, which is orthodontics. And most of the situations that we see today, they need some sort of orthodontic. So once you add prostho, ortho and perio, everything becomes much more interesting and much more fun.

[Jaz]
I totally agree. And I think 80% of my patients who I view and give me permission to view them in a comprehensive way and plan them comprehensively and accepted comprehensive plan, 80% of them would benefit from pre restorative orthodontics. Now that doesn’t mean that 80% will have orthodontics or accept orthodontics, unfortunately a bit lower than that. But I think the benefit even if it’s minor, 80% of your rehab patients will benefit from orthodontics. I’m glad you mentioned that. I mean, it’s no secret that I love occlusion and learning about these things. And that’s why it’s called the Protrusive Dental podcast, obviously. And I think that was for me the passport into treating bear cases because you need an understanding of how everything works as a system. So that was really important for me, I guess where I am in my journey now is that although I think I’m able to think comprehensively and diagnose broadly, the thing I’m missing that I’ve already discovered that you have is working more with specialists. I feel as though I try and do a lot myself. And I do think that the next level up for me will be to refer out and have a periodontist who I trust near me who I can send that work to, and I think work more multidisciplinary will elevate my level of fun even more.

[Jorge]
Absolutely. And one of the things that I noticed about your [inaudible], I think that you have the same feeling as myself, don’t you sometimes feel the urge, feel the need to tell other colleagues “Look how amazing this is, look amazing comprehensive dentistry is.” Because you still see a lot of single tooth dentistry. Number one is not the best interest of the patient. And number two, it’s much less interesting than comprehensive dentistry, and has ever seen in terms of, of teamwork. Well, it’s difficult, I have to say that, in the early years, especially when I started, when I want to do my first comprehensive case, it was difficult. And you really have to be really detailed in terms of communication with a specialist. So my advice to you is start to find a team that you can feel comfortable in communicating, it doesn’t have to be the best prosthodontist in the world, doesn’t have to be the best orthodontist, or you just need to have a group of people that want to grow together, and then want to have fun. That’s it. Because if you want to grow together, if you want to have fun, you will eventually be better. You will, of course do some mistakes, you will learn with the mistakes, and we will get better and better and better. I think if you find open communication, I think that’s the way to go. I think communication is the key because everything else. And it’s also very important to have people that are open minded in terms of feedback. I mean, let’s say I’m an orthodontist, and I say “Look, hey, Jaz I think that you should do this this this way.” And don’t mind, I don’t want you to take it wrong for me being able to decide some prosthodontic decisions as well I adult minded to also give you some orthodontic advice, because there’s a lot of ego in dentistry, and you want to find people that can break that ego barrier, and that they can learn with each other. That will be my advice.

[Jaz]
The whole time. You’re saying that last bit, I was thinking of that episode recently with Richard Porter, about emotional intelligence. And when you’re working in any teams and successful teams, that’s what you need to do. And what you said was being able to take criticism, being able to give criticism knowing that the other person is going to take it the right way. But wait we’re digressing a little bit because right now, I love that little background story we just had it was really fun exchange there. But I want to talk about developing as a comprehensive dentist. When you start diagnosing more, we need better ways to communicate with our patients. And I just felt at one stage in my career that hey, you know what, as I’m becoming more comprehensive, as I’m diagnosing more, as I’m communicating more verbally with the patient, I’m like, hey, this patient kind of needs something to go home and read, right? Because I can’t just tell him everything expect to remember it. And a lot of the buying decisions, and I hate using that term, but it’s true for someone to want to spend X amount of money with you to look after themselves, even if it’s like just biological dentistry doesn’t have to be aesthetic dentistry, even just biological dentistry, they need to sometimes just think about it and have some time to consider things over. So then I started to do letters, which I thought were important. So and the way I used to do it was like, if I have a patient, and I want to find out how you did it, and how you do it now in terms of At which point do you go for letters. And which point is your threshold. Like, do you have a threshold, for example, if today, a patient comes in and they just need one crown and a filling I’m okay with, hey, you need a crown, you need a filling, and I can have that chat in the chair. And I’m confident that I’ve given them a good value and understanding and they can retain that information and get some degree of consent as well from that. But when it gets to a certain level where it becomes a couple more crowns, changing a little bit more than that, maybe definitely if there’s some periodontal surgery involved, when it gets the layers of complexity get more and more at that point, I then need a letter. Now, what is your sort of protocol with that? And what do you advise to general dentist? You know, do should they give a letter to every single patient for every single treatment plan? How do you do it?

[Jorge]
Well, that’s a very interesting question, because you mentioned something that most of the dentists including myself feel a little uncomfortable, which was the financial part because the dentistry is a branch of medicine, right, but most of the dentistries done privately. So, if you want to do comprehensive dentistry, either you want it or not, even if you are not making that much profit for the dentist, you have a lot of materials, I mean the lab bill is usually very high. So because so the fact that comprehensive dentistry equals very high cost, it does not mean that you are making a lot of money, but you have to face one very important issue which is we are talking about a large amount of money. So if you’re doing, so to be very direct to your question is once the patient needs to spend more than $1000, or $2,000 depends on your own practice. I give them a very comprehensive letter for treatment planning this case may be. If it is a single tooth dentistry less than 1000, less than 2000. What we have in our practice is we have some pre printed sheets where we have a list of treatments, restorations crowns, which is really there, we just feel the total. On the back of that sheet. There are some guarantees of the practice policies, some important information and that’s it. But once you go after 1000, or 2000, or even if you just think it’s a difficult patient, you want some more information, you just go for a comprehensive letter. So my [inaudible] is a financial police when I think it’s very important that we as dentists, we should not be making dentistry for money, I think that’s the worst motivation that you can have, you will be miserable if you do that. But dentistry is an expensive profession, it’s an expensive work, even if you don’t make that much money for yourself, you will still have to charge a lot of fees because of staff, because of equipment, because of lab. I mean, that’s a whole lot of issues involved. But you have to be able to deal with that situation. And another very important here that we may be able to talk later, which is I never tried to sell anything, never. My thing is information. It’s never about selling dentistry. It’s about providing information with transparency.

[Jaz]
Absolutely. And I agree that now I’ve reached a stage and been like you actually where it is a little bit about a threshold of At what point they’re spending above a level that I think actually too is a significant investment into their health, and therefore to have some written information to just make it more professional overall. And the communication being crystal clear is important in that patient journey, I think so. I agree with you. You also touched on a patient who may be a difficult or a funny type patient. And sometimes there are some patients who just regardless of what they’re having a simple procedure, they just want all the information, the status of their health. And I completely see that as when I see those patients. And I think those patients also benefit with a letter. And also that can sometimes double up as consent as well. But we’re going to touch a little bit on that later. But you mentioned makemeclear. So let’s talk about Makemeclear. So for those people who don’t know, makemeclear is your baby, it’s Jorge’s baby, and is basically an online platform where and I’m saying it as a user, you’re the Creator. But as a user, I see it as an online platform where I can make beautiful treatment plans and letters to my patients who need comprehensive dentistry. Now, I have done it a bit like you so far on the eight patients I’ve used it on. I’ve used it for those who need a little bit more than just one filling. Okay? They need some work. And they find that so much value from that. So to give you to share some experiences about what happened in the first patient I started to use it on, it was a disaster, Jorge, okay. Because what happened is that I log in because you do 21 day free trial, right? I log in and my biggest barrier was oh my god, I have to chart this patient’s dentition again, right. And on the one hand, there was like, a devil on my shoulder saying, Oh, this is rubbish. You know, why do you have to try it again. But on the other shoulder, there was an angel because it reminded me of someone I used to work with Dr. David Winkler someone if you’re in the UK, you may know Dave Winkler very charismatic guy. I used to work with them in Windsor. And he was very important in my journey to comprehensive dentistry. And when he got me to write letters for my patients, this is what he made me do Jorge, okay? He made me take a screenshot of the exact software charting before and after the plan, okay, which is like the base chart. And the final chart, which actually, visually doesn’t really make much sense to patients that is there but then what I did is upper left eight dash, this tooth is an OK condition. Next one, upper left seven, missing tooth, next tooth, upper left six, this tooth has a large MOD amalgam, it is leaking a bit. So every single tooth, my tooth diagnosis was in that letter, okay. And I thank him for that, because it really made me think like, wow, I’m being very clear, a little bit too much. But because it reminded me of that it showed me the makemeslear is an easier way to do that. Because it’s all visual and I was able to chart then I was able to put my treatment plan. And then I click the Generate Report. And wow, the magic happens. So the first patient I use this on, and I didn’t wanna talk about finances, but this is important. It’s a significant five figure sum. Okay, and it just so happened that I saw a space for a new patient exam and I thought, okay, I’ll use make me clear. And then you email me ‘How’s it going? As I haven’t used it, I have to double chart right Baby, I did it. Okay. And the patient loved it. Okay? Patient love that plan. And she’s going ahead, I’m really excited to start her phase of treatment. It’s a full mouth rehabilitation. I might have send you actually, I’m not sure. And then that was my first experience. And then the second is that was that one practice. Now, Jorge at the second practice, here’s what happened, right? This was 4 full crowns two anteriors, two posteriors, okay? And he’s been like he knows he’s got these two root filled premolar is done by my endodontist. And he needs these crowns. He knows He says, I’ve got a big tax bill in January. I’ll do it. I’ll do it anyway. For crowns he needs, okay. His post crown recently came out, he needs it all done. And I made it for him. When I emailed my reception team to email the patient, okay. Then two days later, I had a message from my principal. Okay, let me read it out to you. So the patient messaged my principal saying Hap, so my principal’s name is Hap Gill. He says, “Hap. I have just received the training plan for my practice, and told Debbie that I have never felt so well cared, treated and informed in my life with any other dentist. And unfortunately, I have a long experience. You are brilliant. Thank you. And thanks, Jaz too please.” Okay. And this is the feedback that I got. Okay. Now, Jorge, before I let you talk a bit about your software and stuff. Let me tell you the funny thing that happened thereafter. So Hap sends me this feedback on our practice group chat, okay. And then I make a video I say, Hey, guys, you know what, I use this new software’s called makemeclear. I think it’s amazing, okay. And then Hap calls me and says, “Okay, when you send that letter, okay, it was like 16 pages. And it sounds very daunting, but it’s all very visual, right?” The reception team, they went crazy. Everyone was like, “Oh, my God, have you seen this plan that Jaz has sent?” They were talking to each other And then they told my principal, “Have you seen this plan? Have you seen this plan for the patient?” And Hap was like, “No, I haven’t sent it to me.” And he was thinking, Oh, my God, what am I doing open heart surgery like, This is crazy. And you know what my principal looked at the plan and he thought this is different. He doesn’t do it like this. Here’s more text heavy. It was very comprehensive. And so Okay, let’s try it. Let’s send it and so the rest is history. You know, the patient loved it. And that’s been amazing. So although I had to double chart, I think for me to help me treatment plan. And to present something that’s really valuable for the patient has been amazing. So the really the question here is, firstly, praise for makemeclear. I love it already. And two is, what will your struggles that led you to make makemeclear?

[Jorge]
Well, it’s fair to mention what David Winkler’s at Windsor, right? I was in his office when they were when

[Jaz]
I worked with him in Windsor. Yeah.

[Jorge]
And you know, I did exactly the same thing, I would go to my management software, I did a screenshot on the before I did the screenshot of the treatment plan. And then I would just attach it to the word document and then save it and then send to the patient. The problem is that I was losing a lot of time, but I was still doing the comprehensive treatment plans. But I was losing a lot of time. And that’s when it was it. I think it was like in December 2016, something like it. It was I think it was like three days before the end of the year. I said no, I have to do something. So I started drawing and designing a mock up in Keynote for makemeclear. And then we just talk to some coders, and we just did it. That’s it, I was just basically scratching my own itch. I never thought that would be become a business or software. I never thought about that. But what happens is that in terms of user feedback, there’s a lot of reluctancy. With that, with double charting, there is and some of the advantages to just stop that as well. That’s not for me. But what I find is that the dentists that are taking the higher value from Makemeclear out of the dentists that are doing more comprehensive dentistry, or let’s say things, in other words, then this that understand that in order for them to be able to perform comprehensive dentistry, they have to communicate well, I usually say this, if you’re going to buy I don’t know if you like cars or not, I’m not a big fan of cars. But if you are going to want to buy your fit, the brochure looks one thing. If you are going to buy a Porsche or a Ferrari or Mercedes, the brochure is different. And this is what makemeclear is all about. It’s being able to deliver a treatment plan that is professional, transparent, elegant and easy to understand. That’s it.

[Jaz]
I like your analogy of cars that because I actually had that same thought like when you go to a car dealership and you’re looking at expensive car, they send you home with all this beautiful documentation, right? So when I started being more comprehensive, making bigger treatment plans, I thought, Hey, I can’t send my patient home with no letter I need to explain so every like orthodontic patient of mine will get a letter. Every rehab patient for sure will get letter and makemeclear has just elevated my letter, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to switch back to my usual letters again, because I really enjoy the visual plans that are made. And hopefully as I’m saying this for those watching, I’ll be able to have some B roll video on showing some some clips from the behind the scenes. But I want what I mean I’ve talked about the software and I’ll touch on it later again. So people know how much I fall in love with them, telling them my principals, my ex principals so everyone’s checking it out now as well. But I want to ask you Next is even within the software as well you can help me, when you have a patient who has a couple of options. Let’s say option one is full mouth rehabilitation. Using crowns and bridges, option two is that with implants maybe? Or the other one is that you know what, we’re just going to conform to the, to your worn dentition and just make your Chrome denture. And it’s a compromise approach, but it’s still a valid approach right? In terms of letters. How do you do it? Like, do you would you put all three options in there? Or would you put your recommended one? And then put the other two in passing? Or just what I understand in your world, the treatment planning? How is that done? How is that handled?

[Jorge]
That’s a very good question, because it was exactly because of that, that we have in makemeclear, we have added the option of doing stages. So basically, what you can use stages in order to stage the treatment. So these are the basic treatments, these are the functional treatments, these are the provisionals. And these are the files, so you can do sub stages and have subtotals in terms of the value there. And you can decide to hide or to show the prices of the of each stage. And you can also decide to hide or show the overall price of the whole treatment. So you can do it in two ways. One of the ways is you can do like a stage one, but instead of naming it stage one, you just name option one, and you just describe it, and you can name it, option two, and then you just hide, you decide not to show the price of the whole treatment plan. So basically, on the title, you say option A veneers, and undisputable so these are veneers, the difference is this, this and this. And option B, these are resins and the advantage and a disadvantage like this. So the basically the patient said that they won’t be able to say to see option A and option B, option A the price and option B the price. Now, this works very well, if that change of option A or Option B does not make very significant changes on the chart. Because as you were saying one thing is implants and crowns. If you want to do that what you can do one very important to, you can just duplicate the plan. So basically, you do the charting, you do the option A. So one plan is Option A only. So then you go to the back office, to the homepage and you just duplicate that plan, you rename it and you just keep the diagnosis, and you only choose the treatment plan. So then it gets sent to documents. But usually what I do is, I always tried to make everything in one document, unless it is a very different treatment plan. So you can do it both ways. Yeah, the problem of implementing everything in [inaudible] that when you are changing the charts, because of implants versus crowns, you will be then presenting four different charts, which from the patient’s perspective, I think it gets confused. So in that way, it’s better to duplicate the first plan and then just work on the treatments and leave the diagnosis. I hope this makes sense to you. I don’t know if I explained it.

[Jaz]
it made perfect sense because I’ve used the software. So I didn’t know that you could hide the price per phase. So for those listening right now when you do and I encourage you all to use the 21 day free trial for makemeclear just to see for yourself and have a play around. When you do your charting, and then you’re making the plan. And then you select bridges, you select crown, you select fillings or whatever. The way I have been doing is phase one is like you know, basic restorative, recalls and stuff like that, the provisional crowns, then phase two and I say you know, 6 to 12 months later I will do my final crowns. And phase three is like a splint or something you know, so I’ll make three phases. But what you’ve taught me now is that you can hide the price in each phase and hide the overall price as well. And now it makes sense to me that you can within one document, present three different options because you don’t show the final altogether price because what you don’t want is three different options and give one big global fee adding it all together. Because that’s not accurate. We’re so that makes sense to me. So I’m hoping people who can visualize that. It will make so much more sense to you, if you’d go to makemeclear.com and start the 21 day free trial and just have a play around, see what we’re talking about. But that makes sense to me. So really, what I heard was you like to make it all under one plan, ideally, although there are some challenges if the charting is different, which makes sense to me as well. And then therefore the option to duplicate the plan is genius. Fantastic.

[Jorge]
I mean, there’s also one thing that you can always do, for example, let’s say I have basic treatments on phase one, and then phase two is different. It says option A and option B. That way what happens is that you may make high the overall price but you can also generate overall price. And then you can also edit the PDF outside makemeclear. And then what happens is so your price will not be 5000 to be, from 2000 to 5000 depending whether you choose for phase two, option one or Option two, but it’s very important, Jaz, that on the description of the stages, make sure that the patient clearly sees that’s options are option a veneer. Option B, resins. Option A, implants. Option B, crowns. Very important place the word option because they want from the sentence option.

[Jaz]
That’s another gem that because obviously, I had Adobe, the software and the full paid one or whatever. So I’ll be able to open the generated treatment plan and actually do a little edit myself which it makes so much sense. I can’t believe I didn’t think of it. But yeah, I like that. So you then give a broad range of fees, because it obviously will depend ultimately on what they choose. So thank you so much for that gem. Within makemeclear. And I mean, all my treatment plans even before makemeclear, had patient photos on there. So I like the fact that you can add a document with a photo template and you’re able to have these likes or grids where you can upload your photo that was amazing. But just general treatment planning advice? Do you provide smile simulations in your treatment plans? And who do you use? Do you use a company? Do you do it itself? Tell us more about that. And do you give any sort of disclaimers with that?

[Jorge]
Yeah, so basically, what I want to add as much images as possible because I think that patients they want a combination. Most of the patients they want the combination of charts, simple to read text with the appropriate pricing, and also image especially of their own case of sort of images. I mean, Crowding, most of the people, they don’t they have no idea of the amount of crowding that they have or the condition of some of the fillings on the backside of the mouth. So that is very important. Also, do I use smile simulations? Absolutely, yes, use smile simulations, if you notice on one of the templates, one of the image templates have makemeclear, there’s a template for smile simulations phase before and after. And there’s pre loaded method says this is just the simulation, final results can vary depending on each case. And which program do I use? I use smile cloud from [inaudible], it is amazing software that you can use we use smile designs for the before and after. So that is I use that on reductive cases. So let’s say you want to do some reductive in your veneers, or you want to do some reductive crowns, so you cannot do any editing mock up. But whenever I can, I prefer to use a mock up. Sometimes I do it directly in the mouth. Sometimes I just give impressions to the dental technician and that he does the mock up. But I love to use mock ups for the patient to videos before and after, of course videos, you cannot ever makemeclear collect images. But sometimes I send technically and I also send a link to show the patients, the videos that we have that. It’s also important that you have to take into account local regulations in terms of privacy and stuff like that, even though makemeclear is a software that is approved with the regulation everything, what you do with a document, of course, you have to be as careful as with every other document that has some patient information, we have to look at local regulations, of course.

[Jaz]
Thank you very much. And you talked about the 2D simulation, which obviously, we found out you’re a fan of but you also talk about the 3d, which is the mock up in the mouth. But I noticed that is very interesting. That sounds like in some cases, for the additive cases, you do the 3d mock up and take that videos and photos and then send the treatment plan makemeclear. Tell us about your workflow. Do you get the patient to cover your wax up at least? Let’s talk a little bit about those, you know, staging or when you do because because it’s a very, it’s called a motivational mock up because it’s highly motivational. So it makes sense to do it first, then I like your is a genius idea to send them the video, it makes even more sense to me that hey, you know, to use an app or something to get the two video before and after side by side. That’s a pretty cool thing to do as well. But if you have that information at the same time as sending them the plan, that’s a good idea. But how do you do it? What’s your workflow?

[Jorge]
So that’s a very, very interesting question that I get asked a lot by students, and it depends a lot on your own personality. Well, let me give you an example some of the most outgoing personality in terms of dentistry, they just tell this patient, the patient comes in for the first time he said, Well, I like to do something, I’m not even gonna charge you for that. So basically, it’s some impressions or oral scans. And basically, they asked dental technician to do some aesthetic mock up. And in most of the cases, they have an agreement with a dental technician that they will not be spending too much time on the wax up on the digital wax up. It’s not a functional wax up, it’s just some buccal veneers. And then you just do a key and you just sneak on index and on the second appointment, you place it in the mouth, and then you start talking about treatment planning and money. Well, I think it can be very effective. I think it’s mostly respectable, but I think for me for my own personality. It’s a bit salesy, you know, I mean, it’s not very, I prefer to do Following, I prefer to ask it, to tell the patient Look, the patient comes in for the first appointment. On the second appointment, I will not charge it, I will not charge it. And what I will do as well, what I am thinking is about this, this, this, this and this. On the second appointment I talk. First I talk about the treatment plan, and then I placed the mock up and then do the recording, I don’t want to be talking about,..

[Jaz]
But I just want to check, maybe misinterpret. So you will see the first patient for the comprehensive diagnosis and new patient examination. And then the second appointment is that to explain the treatment plan or is it’s purely for the mock up?

[Jorge]
To explain the treatment plan. To explain the treatment plan and also show them the mock up. And on that second appointment, I myself I assume the costs of the mock up. But remember, Jaz, that mock up is only an aesthetic mock up, what I don’t like to do is I don’t like to the patient comes on the second appointment, they get placed a mock up, and then they just start talking about money with a “Oh, in order to get this result. It’s this this this.” So I want to be able to, I want to provide more information, I want the patient to understand why am I going to do a mock up for them to realize what we are talking about. I don’t want to play something in the mouth And then to start off because I think it’s a bit awkward. It’s I mean, I don’t want to have I would not feel very comfortable to have someone placing something inside my mouth without explaining the why that will happen. I understand the emotional dentistry part of that and understand that. But for my own personality, I don’t think it does work. So to sum it up, I think it depends a lot on your own philosophy and personality, there’s a lot of combinations, you can do it directly without spending money from the dental technician but spending share time and it improves your skills with composite. You can do it indirectly in the lab, but then you have to negotiate with the lab “look, I want you to be able to do me mock ups, aesthetic mock ups only for the six or seven or 10 into your deep, but those are only aesthetic. So let’s agree on what’s a reasonable fee. So that that I can either charge or not charge the patient, but also be vulnerable to the fact that they will not accept the treatment plan and I might lose that money.” So there is no way I’m going to do a functional mock up, a functional full mouth mock up without the patient have access to the treatment. So if I do a mock up with lab costs, it has to be real. And it’s only a aesthetic. And you can also use only 2D, if you don’t feel comfortable about 3d you can only use 2D me. I think it depends a lot on your own personality on the philosophy of your own practice. What I never do, I never charge the patient a second appointment. And I also know I know if it happens out in UK or not. But here in Portugal, there’s a lot of dentists and clinics that are doing treatment plans for free, which is something completely for free, which is something that I don’t agree, because I think that when you are doing something for free, do it very fast, and you are not going to do it well. It’s impossible to do comprehensive dentistry, a good treatment plan, doing it for free, because you’ll be losing a lot of time. It’s almost impossible.

[Jaz]
So I agree with you. Absolutely. I agree with you about a comprehensive exam requires so much energy and time and, you know, expertise that yes, it shouldn’t be offered free. But I just want to hone in on the real amazing gem that you shared, which is a real takeaway that I learned just now from what you said as well is to negotiate with your lab, in a non confrontational way. Now you’re probably buddies, a lot of us listening, and on very good terms with your lab, and just explain what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, and get them to see the benefit that hey, this may improve case acceptance. And guess who you’re going to be doing the indirect work with, that laboratory, obviously. So I think there’s a good relationship win-win with a lab like they can give you a significant discount on an incisor facial mock up additive, so it’s not a functional, they don’t need to worry about the occlusion just make it look nice. So they can clip on, if you like or just with Bis-Acryl. But also, is something fun to show the patient on the day as well, which I think is genius. But you on that second appointment when you’re about to place the silicon key. Do you have, you already made your makemeclear plan at that point. Right? Okay. And then you will follow up with the plan with the videos maybe from that appointment?

[Jorge]
Yes, I showed them the plan. And I said, Look, there’s one very important sentence that I use all the time and it relates to the question, well, should I talk about money in the beginning? Should I talk about money in the end of the explanation? For many years, I talk about the money before explaining the treatment plan and some people have given Well, that does not make sense. You have to talk about where to go through treatment plan. But sometimes it takes 10 minutes to go through the treatment plan and some patient are just they’re just waiting. So I think there’s a balance. So I usually say, Well, you know, I mean, you have what, ideally what you should do in your mouth, it’s almost the price of a car. So the treatment, and I’m gonna present you as an approximate price of this. And look, I am not here selling you anything. My goal here is purely giving you information. So my goal today here is providing you accurate information. And in these sorts of cases, sometimes I would advise patients to go for a second opinion. So I’m going to give you all the information, what is happening in your mouth, what will happen if nothing is done, and what can we do and what will be my proposed treatment plan, and then you can decide at home, think about it. And if you have any doubt, just call me. So now and after that I go through treatment plan. And so basically what I do, I lower the pressure, I lower the stress levels. So if I am on the patient shoes, the patient said, Well, this guy’s not sending me anything. I may accept it. I may not accept, but let me listen to what he has to say. Because all the pressure, all the expectations go down. Okay? So we can have a conversation, a transparent conversation like to normal people, because businesses should always be in a win win situation. And I don’t want to scare the patient for 10 minutes, Dentist talking about this, this, this and that. Well, now it’s 20,000. So I think it’s fair to talk it in the beginning. But I accept the critics that said, No, you should talk it at the end. And once I say that, well, now I’m going to place it in your mouth, something I want to do a short video, if you have a studio, do it with a studio, if you have even a cell phone is okay, just recording the cell phone the before and after, place it on the keynote, exported the before and after and sell it together with the treatment plan. I also create the treatment plan and deliver it to them, some patient they don’t want the paper Of course, some patients want the paper. Some patients, I think it’s important what you say in the beginning, they want to have something that they can take home and show their families. Look, I went to this dentist, what do you think about this? Do you think I should spend this amount of money? Well, let me see. So sometimes they in the [inaudible] reading a treatment plan. Because it’s like you said, one of the reasons that you click on the report and everything generates itself because there are some automated descriptions that appear. I mean, if you lose a tooth, this is what’s happening. And this is all automated, but you can also customize it. So I think for me, the best way is to I would I charge the first appointment, I collect the data, the second appointment, I will not charge I have an agreement with the lab. In some cases, it is possible to do the 3D, some of the cases with additive it’s only the 2D, but I try to play around with that, in my opinion, even if even if you spend some money on the wax, the wax up at the end of the day, in a statistic way, you will always be benefiting from that financial, always, because the amount of treatment plans accepted by your patients will absolutely In my opinion, if you are competent, and if you are honest, they will improve and you will have more and more patients for you. And another very, very important thing, even if they don’t do it, because they may not be financially prepared to do that. They will advise you, they will tell their friends and look at this guy, very professional, very elegant treatment plans. And there will be lots of of referrals from families.

[Jaz]
I 100% Agree I mean that that little message that I read out from the patient, I my first patient at the second practice, or I work at one day a week and look at the message that he sent to us saying that, you know he felt so cared for. And totally whenever someone mentions, hey, I’m looking for a dentist, he will think, Hey, I know a very comprehensive dentist who is very good communicator. But just want to highlight three important things I just learned from what you said, Okay, I want to just highlight it for the listeners again, because I think they’re just gold. What you said basically, A) is that I didn’t know that within makemeclear that you can edit the bits of for example, for those who haven’t used makemeclear when you do the diagnosis for missing teeth. I didn’t know you could edit the diagnosis. So I’m going to totally go and edit the different diagnosis in my own language, my own style. So I’m Oh my god, I’m so excited to do that. I sound like a massive geek. I know. That’s one. Number two is I like the fact that the way you communicate money to the patient, is that you explained to them upfront in a way that they can bring that guard down because if they’re all they’re worried, worried worried, oh my god, oh my god, how much it’s gonna cost? how much gonna cost? And you’re telling him all this stuff they’re not taking in. But if you can tell them and I love the way that you told them, You anchored it to a car, right? And then of course, a car can cost 800 pounds, it can cost 80,000 pounds, right? So I like the anchor because it gives you a range as well like a car, it can be anything. So I like that it gives them an anchor to work with that also allows them to just get that out their system and then listen to what you have to say. So those are three little things that I got from you there. So thanks so much for sharing that. The next question, Jorge, I have is and we’re down to our last two questions. The next question is the more comprehensive dentistry I do, the more couldn’t go wrong during the treatment. So for example, no, it’s true, right? Like Imagine you’re doing like eight crowns, maybe one will need a root canal halfway through and maybe one as you remove the core everything will just break and you find out hang on this tooth is actually unreasonable or whatever, right? Like this happens, it’s part of dentistry, it’s part of comprehensive care. A) how do you communicate that to the patient? And B) just out of interest, Do you absorb that cost when something goes wrong? How do you like to do it? Because I know like one of my principals, Hap remind me saying very comprehensive dentist, has lots of big treatment plans and is very much a full mouth dentist. The way he does it is that he sets one fee and he I really like one sentence, he writes in the letter, which I’m probably going to automate and introduce into my makemeclear now that I know that we can automate it so much, which is that, hey, you know what, I’m giving you this global fee. And just understand that if any little hiccups come along the way Don’t worry that this fee is to cover you anything you might need, except an implant like that, for example, and I like that way because it gives the patient the peace of mind that you’re going to do everything but how do you do it, Jorge?

[Jorge]
Well, I like what you say because there’s this one advice that I wish I knew that out when I was starting comprehensive dentistry is that the worst thing that can happen to you is to start to be successful in comprehensive dentistry. That’s the worst thing because success in comprehensive dentistry brings a lot of complexity. Exactly what you said. I learned I saw one one presentation from Paul from the state and he said it single tooth dentistry is proportional. I mean, what you gain depends a lot on the amount and the problems depends on the amount of work that you do. Comprehensive dentistry wants to increase the vertical dimension. Once you place ortho, it’s exponential. This means that the amount of if you are doing 10 crowns in comprehensive dentistry with increasing vertical dimension [inaudible]. You cannot charge 10 times 10 crowns. You can’t do that. You have to charge provisionals, you have to charge articulators, you have to charge the try ins, you have to make yourself safe. And what I do I place, I always paint the worst case scenario. Most cases won’t happen. But I place the worst case scenario, if there is a tooth, that is doubtful, okay, so I also place in the playroom, we may eventually have to place an event on the stick with an additional cost of x. But if I have not mentioned that I absorbed the cost, I’d never, I always tell the patient Look, I never I would not like to play a game that someone changes the rules of the game in the middle of the game, I don’t like that. So I will not change the rules of the game, this is the amount. And from then on up to this amount of this worst case scenario, we will absorb everything if anything happens. And I also talk about about warranties, I guaranteed my word for it for some period of time, I think it’s this is controversial. But for example, I give my ceramics three to five year guarantee depends on a functional risk, I give my implants a five year guarantee, as long as the patient is coming for maintenance, I give my restorations a two year guarantee. And I do it for every single patient, I understand that dentistry is medicine, and each person is a person, but you have to be able to talk their language, they have to feel comfortable. And we Indian, one thing I always tell my team, if you are doing a remake of restorations, it’s the best marking that you can do if it’s within the guaranteee, it’s the best marketing maneuver. And you should be doing that with a very happy face. So we do the restoration, very happy face, you have a loyal customer for the rest of your life.

[Jaz]
I like that mindset. Because this whole thing about whenever you’re produced with a challenge, you should see it as an opportunity. So the challenge is the patient broke your crown after a year. But this is an opportunity to really wow a patient to show them that you care. And then they will sing and shout from the top of the world for a second time. Hopefully, that hey, you know what this happened, but they looked after me so well, like all the best customer service places obviously have that. And I like the what you touched about. You will cover everything up to the point of the things that you mentioned in the letter. So yes, for example, my principal, he mentioned about hey, you know, if anything go wrong, Don’t worry, we got you. But then I think if you mentioned things like but for this [inaudible] root canal, I want you to budget for this amount, because in case it needs it, and suddenly I learned from Lincoln Harris as well actually that actually every deep filling every crown he does, he’ll always give the fee for the root canal to go alongside it, it really just like you said, gives the worst case scenario. So I think that’s a great answer. So now we’re down to the last question before we just have a little chitchat, which is what are the ways that you used to present treatment plans before makemeclear? And what’s the number one thing that patients have told you since you design makemeclear and now you’re using that?

[Jorge]
Well, I think the number of questions and agitation from people has dropped dramatically. I have received letters from dentists, customer that use the makemeclear said Well, I’ve had the lawyer that call me say look I have never seen such a well written dental contract as I’ve seen you, because lawyers they are very sensitive to letters and stuff like that. If you do if you present a comprehensive treatment plan to a lawyer so ah this guy really knows what he’s doing. And the amount of respect that you spent, that you get from patients is huge. Like I said, even if they don’t accept it, they will they will refer you. Absolutely. You will be referred to I have no doubt. So what was happening before and what is happening now. First of all, I feel my stress level is high up until the moment that I do the treatment plan and sent to the patient. Once that happens, that stress loss. Why because after that, I only need one thing, execution. So the most difficult thing is doing the map. If I know the map, if the patient knows the map, and he accepts it, then we just have to execute it. But the level of stress diminishes, was also one thing very important is that with makemeclear everybody, especially if you divide the treatment phases, everybody knows what they are doing in which stage of the treatment plan which is something very, very important.

[Jaz]
This is so good. Because it now that I’ve been making the letters and I’ve been breaking into phases, I’ve been thinking, hey, when I come to do the treatment, this going to help my nurse so much, know what I’m doing what to set up for each appointment if you like. And also, you know when you’re in a busy and practice, see some of the patients, and then Mrs. Smith is coming she’s you know, a more comprehensive plan. And you’re like, wait, what are we doing today? We decided we’re doing, where are we? And when you have it documented in a letter like the one that you can produce with MMC. It’s not just for the patient, it’s actually benefit for you as a dentist because you can Okay, we’re on phase two, somewhere around the middle. So that’s a really great point you raised there. And I think this might be a good point to say to those listening is that please do the trial for the makemeclear and see for yourself. But don’t make the same mistake I did. Because the mistake I made made was I got scared by the double charting. But I want everyone to see it as an opportunity to A) be as comprehensive as possible and B) when you do the charting there and really is it gets quicker and quicker. I’m on like a patient 8th now. And I’m pretty quick now. Because once you know what you’re clicking stuff on the left and apply to the right, it becomes quicker and quicker. And the second thing is that when you’re doing the treatment plan, you’re doing the whole thinking process. So every patient you get you treat comprehensively you have to sit and think and you have to think okay, am I doing a crown or a filling? Okay, how much am I raising the vertical dimension, if you do all the hard work, then just like you said, when you’re producing letter, and you produce a beautiful letter, just like you said, the rest is just actually carrying the dentistry out. So the hard work is done as part of making treatment plans. And it’s part of communicating with the patient. So everyone, don’t be scared of the double charting get good get slick it and my plan for the future is to teach my nurse how to do it. Because to be fair, one a part of my workflow is when I take my full photos, sometimes when I’m speaking to the patient, my nurse has already rotated the photos and she is now doing the charting already on the system. Because I can check this caries and whatnot already. Medical legally the charting so you can be do from the photos, basically. And I think to use the MMC visual format, I am confident that my nurse will be able to do my charting for me as well, then I need to go and make the plan. So everyone, don’t be scared of double charting, use it on your patient, generate the report, send in the report and just you know, see how amazing is now. Jorge, you have been very kind to offer those who listen to Protrusive Dental podcast a discount, I really appreciate that. So the code is protrusive. And that will get them 25% off. Is that right, Jorge?

[Jorge]
Yeah, if you can use that you can use a 21 day free trial. And we also have a special special offer for you being such a kind friend for makemeClear. And if you use the protrusive coupon, you’ll have a 25% discount, either on a monthly or on the yearly plan.

[Jaz]
I mean, that is amazing. I mean, put it this way, the first patient that I gave the plan to and she’s accepted. And since then I’ve given seven other plans. And one I got the feedback and obviously in 2021, he’s going to head that plan as well. So if you just get one comprehensive plan, how much is one comprehensive case worth you, when you get that approved Because maybe the difference was that letter and how good it looked and how professional it looked. But also saving the stress going in the future in terms of following where you’re on the journey. I think it’s amazing value. And honestly, Jorge, thanks so much, 25% is a massive discount. So really appreciate that. So the code again is protrusive and only for those who listen to Protrusive Dental podcast. Jorge, The other thing that I actually watched one of your recordings on YouTube that you did with another podcaster I think and you guys talked about well actually he meantioned it, That, if you have makemeclear as a principal as a practice, then all the associates, all the dentists, all the specialists within that practice, can use the same account, which, for me, like you’re doing yourself out of a lot of business a lot of money, I think, personally, but I think wow, what it makes it even more like whatever, comparatively low fee it is when you break it up against five dentists using it and using it consistently. I mean, that’s amazing. Thank you for making that happen, I guess.

[Jorge]
So the thing is that you basically, you will only be limited by the logo that you place on the front page, if the logo is the same logo in the practice. I mean, you can use it for as many dentists, as many users. Everybody can use it.

[Jaz]
What I’m doing at the moment, Jorge is as I’m an associate, right? I’m associated to connect. Okay, so the way I use it is I have my own dentist logo. Okay? And then what you’re able to do within that is I’m able to change the address of the practice, as I send out the plan. So that’s what I’m doing the moment but I can totally see it. Like if, for example, if tomorrow, one of my practices took on makemeclear, which I think Hap probably will, because he was amazed by the feedback of the patient. And then of course, the Richmond dentist logo will be on there. And then all the other dentists that all the four associates that we all can use that as well. So it’s really a great deal in that way. I think. So that makes sense.

[Jorge]
Yeah, you’re spot on exactly. We have users that are dentists that are working several practices, they use it for their own. So they just changed the address of the practice, they have their own logo as a dentist. And we also have practices that all of the dentists that work in the practice use makemeclear with only one account. So you can use it both ways. Basically.

[Jaz]
Brilliant.

[Jorge]
You can access it anytime simultaneously, you can access it, as long as you have a desktop that you can access with internet, you don’t need to install anything, it’s all done through the browser. So it’s very easy to use, we always wanted to make it simple to use, we don’t want to over complicate it, because there’s a fine balance between the features and simplicity. And we always strive for the simplicity, because sometimes the most complex things are and sometimes they don’t really have that much you want to have something that can really make your life easier.

[Jaz]
Jorge, once a patient’s accepted a treatment plan, right? And it is comprehensive dentistry. What I like to do is every phase I like to send them like a table almost. Appointment one, what I’m doing, how long it is, and then the next appointment, what should the space be between that so it takes me a bit of time, but I do it for the patient, but I do it for me and my nurse as well, because we know exactly how long the appointment is, what we’re doing, and I can follow that journey along as well. A) do you do this for your patients? And B) do you see any any value in that? Or do you think I’m wasting my time? Or is there any other way that you’d like to do it?

[Jorge]
I think this is the you have to, what the patient wants is practical information. So what the patient What will he want he wants to know? How long it will take the appointment specially if it’s a longer appointment? for example, I say well, this is these are the basic treatments. This is some restorations. If you want I placed on these descriptions of the stage, if you want we can make this in a full morning or a full afternoon we can take care of everything. And then let’s say for example, we place the implants on phase one surgery, phase two crowns over the implants. So, what we say on phase two is this, this phase will only take place six months after phase one and it will be needing like three or four or five points. So, as with your question, absolutely, you have to provide as much practical information as possible and be very simple in that information. So, this will be like a long appointment, this will you will have to wait for three months before going to stage two. So this phase should be done before the other phase or should be done after the two phase like to provide as much as practical information. So when you place yourself on the patient’s feet, what you have to do, you have to look at what you are reading and being simple to understand. So this is A, B, C and D these are the conditions from go from A to B but you have to be as simple as possible. Make it as simple and as concrete as possible with the most practical information of course.

[Jaz]
Jorge, thank you for coming on this journey and talking about a lot of different elements of patient communication and writing reports and letters and what should go in your letter and what about when you talk even about warranties and you mentioned all these other things that we didn’t scrape for and gave so much value. Any closing comments, my friend?

[Jorge]
Well i think that the reason why I created makemeclear is also because of a philosophy of communicating with patients and I think that dentistry in recent years is drifted into a lots of marketing. It’s a lot of easy and fast treatments and the reason why makemeclear was developed, it because I didn’t want that dentists that want to do comprehensive dentistry that the patient actually needs. I didn’t want those dentists to be into a disadvantages of the clinics or the banks that are much more salesy, that are much more aggressive in sales. So if you want to do comprehensive dentistry, please be hopeful dentistry that is comprehensive is beautiful, and you can do it at speed. But you have to develop communication skills, makemeclear is just one tool to help you become more transparent and more and to improve the efficiency of your communication to be able to the dentistry that you love.

[Jaz]
Amazing, Jorge, thank you so much for giving up your time. I know you’re so busy in Portugal in your clinic and stuff, but thanks for giving time to speak to listeners about how to make crystal clear treatment plans that’s going to woo the patients just like it has my patients and oh my god, I’m so glad I discovered makemeclear and I’m really excited. My principals can see it. I mean, when I come into work, and I made a new plan. I want to show my nurse, I want to show my principal, and the patients are just completely wowed by this. So thank you for making makemeclear. And thank you for making it all clear. I really appreciate you having on stage, Jorge.

[Jorge]
Okay, well, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure for me. Sometimes I feel that comprehensive dentistry is something that is going into extinction. And especially with guys like you that are a lot into functional dentistry and are spreading the word of how fun functional and comprehensive dentistry can be. So I thank you so much for having me. And I hope that we can collaborate more in the future. Okay? Thank you so much.

[Jaz]
Thank you.

Jaz’s Outro: Protruserati, thank you so much for listening all the way to the end, I really appreciate you. Do check out the show notes on the website where you can download an example report that’s been generated. So the URL for this episode will be www.protrusive.co.uk/treatmentplans and let me know how you guys get on with a makemeclear. Remember, don’t sign up for it unless you’ve got that, you know, a string of patients that need that treatment plans that if you’re going to take a two week vacation, not like anyone’s going anywhere, but maybe when you listen to this in the future. And you think hey, you know what, I’m going on vacation. And then unless you’re actually doing some treatment plans on vacation, don’t don’t sign up because I wanted to get the maximum benefit from the trial period, which I sort of neglected initially. But when I came around to making these plans, it’s been amazing. And I hope you guys enjoyed the chat with Dr. Jorge Cardoso today, and hey, next episode will be Episode 50. How about that? Okay? So I raised about to 50 PDP episodes, but I’ve got a few other things. There’s something called group function coming out. So I’m coming up with some called group function, which will be the third arm of the podcast, which is where when we ask questions as a community, so anyone in the Facebook group that asked a question, sometimes it’s a good way to answer the question, working as a group. So hope you like the name group function, and I’ll catch you in the next episode. Thanks so much.

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Jaz Gulati
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