Transition to Private Dentistry – PDP003

Jaz’s Introduction: Hello everyone, this is Jaz Gulati here. Thanks so much for tuning in today. And thank you just gently for the lovely words of encouragement and support I’ve been getting so far, it’s been so much fun doing this, and I’ve recorded quite a few episodes now I’m just finding the time to edit it really. So today’s a really great episode. Whether you’re you know, driving, on a journey, in a commute or having a cup of coffee, listen to this, I think this is going to be really helpful to people listening out there, to young dentists but also to experienced dentist, this is all about a transition, a change, a change from whichever environment you’re at the moment to a different environment of let’s say, clinical dentistry or place in life you want to be and typically, you know, the the crossroad you find is, or a decision you have to make is a transition from NHS dentistry, for example, or whatever type of practice you’re in the moment to something better be it private, or in a mixed position or summer with a better mentor. Today is all about an interview with Dhru. And we really do discuss a few step stones and a few ideas of how the young dentist or even the experienced dentist can make a change from what they’re practicing in the moment to where they want to practice. It’s interesting, I was on Facebook and I was reading one of the sort of dentistry groups or on someone made a comment in a thread about you know, being an associate versus being a principal. And the comment was from a principal who said that, I think associates are lacking ambition nowadays. Okay? So fair enough, but I’ll rephrase it for you. Okay? What do you call an ambitious associate? Okay, it’s called a principal, right? So I think all principals have to accept the associate mindset, okay, that they’re not going to be as I would even say that associates cannot be as ambitious as principal you totally can be. It’s just a different set of circumstances, different places in life, whether you want to be a leader of a practice in that sense, and whether you want to own a business or on a business. So I you know, just because you’re not a principal, doesn’t mean you can’t be ambitious. And that’s sort of one thing I want to discuss about today. But for associates, I want to give them a bit of a tip as well, as an associate myself, I like to think that I still do my best and I sort of treat the business as if it’s my own as well, within reason, I think when an associate really, really cares for that practice, and cares that business and looks after materials and helps the lifts, practice morale, and even contributes outside of the working hours in any way at all. I think it’s really, really important to do that to show you that you are a team player, because ultimately, the success of the business, success of the practice is your success as an associate as well. So I do think associates, if you think that you’re just there to do a nine to five and come back and you’re not really doing anything to market your practice or to support the principal, then I think, you know, that’s not really cool. You’ve got to up your game, but principals, you got to make sure that the relationship exists for your associates be able to be ambitious in their own way and get rewarded for in some way or another. Today’s Protrusive Dental pearl relates to this episode. And basically it’s primarily to associates but there’s a bit for the principal here as well. Okay? So I see this scenario quite a lot. The pearl is this basically, I see this, put it through as a form of scenario and I see it quite a lot. Okay, let’s say you’re doing a postgraduate degree in orthodontics, for example. Okay, just started it, you’re learning quite advanced level now and you’re hoping to start some complex cases. The only problem is that you’ve got all these lists of materials to buy, and you’ve got these pliers, all these different archwires, NiTi, stainless steel, different types of bendy things, elastics all sorts, okay, in your knee, and you’ve got some patients, you may have some patients who have agreed to go ahead with treatment and you’re excited. It’s boding really well for your sort of clinical education for towards your degree. Because you know, experience is so so important. If you go on any course and you don’t implement it, then you don’t really learn anything from it. It’s the same with any postgraduate degrees, you’ve got to be implementing practice. So let’s say you’ve got patients lined up ready to go except you can’t carry on you can’t proceed because you’ve now sent an email to your practice manager and principal or you told them face to face or all codes, all the materials that you need, and that’s reviewing it and that I mean, our ring, and they might say no, or for whatever reason, or they might say, okay, let us think about it. Let’s discuss it as next staff meeting. You know, it’s 1000 pounds worth of equipment. And you know what, I think they’re within their right to not hastily buy things if you know, associates nowadays, can come and go and imagine investing so much in an associate and you know, the next month they’re gone or whatever, you know, not, that you know, this happens often or commonly or maybe it does. I’m not really sure what the what experiences principals have had out there, but I totally get it when an associate goes in a new course. And they have this new list of, you know, get me this articulator so I can do this all cases or you know, all the materials I mentioned. And suddenly, the principals have turned around, say no, or just wait a moment or wait for the right time, wait for a few months. So it puts the associate in a difficult position because you’ve got these all these cases ready to go, right? Well, associates, listen, go ahead and buy those materials yourself. Okay? It’s going to be tax deductible, firstly, so the sting is not as much, okay? And the most important thing is that you get to start treatment now, okay? You get the benefit of the increased revenue. But more importantly, the educational benefit is so, so important. And it’s important start now, not tomorrow, not in a month, okay? If the only thing holding you back from implementing new knowledge is materials that your sort of principal or your practice manager has to approve, and that’s slowing you down. You need to just, you know, just bite the bullet and buy yourself, okay, then after you’ve done a few cases, you increase your revenue, okay? And then you can actually present evidence to your principal and say, Look, I’ve done so many cases, you know, I’ve proved that I can do it. I’m excited and ready to do some more cases. Can you kindly now consider buying me all these materials ASAP? You know, I don’t think a principal who’s worth their salt would say no. Okay. And he worked for corporate, it’s the same. If you can prove that you can bring a return on investment. Right, then I think any principle, any corporate would would say yes to. So I’m hoping that associates are not finding themselves in situations, such as this too many times. But if that’s holding you back, okay, you need to act now by yourself, start the cases, learn, enrich your mind, enrich your wallet, so that you can then invest further. Okay, so that’s my Protrusive dental pearl and I think it ties in really well. I hope that point comes across and it’s actually a real life scenario for a lot of people I meet. So let’s join the interview with Dhru Shah now. We’ve got some really great gems in here, I think’s gonna help a lot of dentists, whether you’re from the UK, or from the US or wherever, basically, because you know, for example, in the USA, although you don’t have the NHS, you know, you may be a dentist who’s looking to work in a better practice in terms of being less based around insurance, for example, and changing the environment to this episode is all about how you can bring about that change, what steps I think, what steps Dhru thinks are necessary. We’ve all been through this journey ourselves. And Dhru ‘s helped so many people out there. So I think you’ll love this. So let’s have a listen.

Main Interview: [Jaz]
Dhru, you’re you know, you’re a man who needs no introduction. You’re obviously if the founder of Dentinal Tubules is doing awesome. It’s one of the things, one of the reasons I got involved was, you know, because of your sheer inspiration. And the reason I want to speak to you about this topic was I’m pretty sure that, you know, in the UK, you’re probably someone who’s helped the most amount of people with this, you know, topic that we’re going to be discussing today, which is transitioning into private practice, I’m pretty sure you, you know, mentor, or help, either through Tubules, or, you know, giving up your own time or mentoring. You’ve helped people into private practice. I mean, would you say that, you think that’s fair to say?

[Dhru]
It’s, I would hope so. I mean, I have helped people with gaining the right skills, perhaps, you know, in the right direction. I’ve never actively ever pushed people to say go into private practice. But I have always tried to encourage people to deliver good quality patient care. And with the system we are in now, I think invariably, that’s where it lands up, that they end up in private practice, because that’s where they can deliver that kind of care. Now, that I think that’s a sensible way to go.

[Jaz]
Yeah, so private practice, it’s like a surrogate outcome of, you know, getting people to do be the best dentist, they can be. Right?

[Dhru]
Correct. That’s, I think that’s the best way to put it actually, it is that. And ultimately, that’s what we know, that’s what we are about. We were about looking after patients. And if something stops, you’ve got to find a way in which you can do it better.

[Jaz]
That’s true. But I think we have to just start off by saying that, you know, this is not slagging off the NHS. Okay. I mean, this is not what this podcast is about, right? We’re not we’re not here to slag off the NHS and condemn everyone who works within it. I think the NHS has its place and those who work in mixed practice ownership. I mean, they do an amazing job. I tried it, I certainly couldn’t do it as well as they can. And you know, not everyone, not every young dentist listening to this needs to feel as though they need to be in private practice. I think should we just clear that out?

[Dhru]
Yes, absolutely. I think it’s a good thing to say that yes, they do. It’s not either, but that’s where I always sort of say, you know, it’s not a bad private practice. It’s about delivering good care. And if you know if you feel that you’re comfortable, delivering it within the system of NHS with the Practice you are and you don’t have to go private, ultimately. It’s what you feel comfortable as an individual. It’s what you feel happier as an individual. Private care isn’t about, you know, a lot of people think when you talk private dentistry, a lot of people think, Oh, that’s a higher level of dentistry.

[Jaz]
They think of Facebook dentistry.

[Dhru]
They think of Facebook dentistry, that smile designs, they think of the fact that I’ve got to charge more. I mean, I know people who said, you know, I’ve never done private dentistry, because I feel I’m not worth that extra charge money. And I said, That’s not private dentistry, you charge more maybe because you take more time, but private dentistry, is actually just doing the same thing, just that sometimes you feel I can spend a bit more time may be doing this. And therefore I feel better. I mean, if you think I’m a very slow worker, it takes me, you know, I’m not the fastest person in the book, no doubt. But private dentistry, for me is about that time. Now. A lot of people I worked in the NHS for a few years after graduating. And I know a lot of practitioners when the big practice I was in. And they were also very, you know, very good at delivering if they didn’t think that they needed to go to private dentistry. And I think that misconception has to be changed. Like you say, you know, it’s not Facebook dentistry, it’s doing the bog standard, basic daily work,

[Jaz]
and doing it the best you can and but you know, I mean, you have to say that, you know, when I was in DF1 or just out of dental school, I had this preconception that a private dentist or private dentistry, if you’d like, is like, it’s always going to be awesome. Like, if I thought, all right, someone’s had this done privately, then it must have been just amazing. It’s not, I mean, you know, more than anyone that’s just far from the truth, right? There’s plenty of amazing work that’s done on the NSH, and some plenty of shoddy worked on privately. But on the whole, you’d think that the people, the type of dentists that go into private practice, they’re able to spend more time on it, invest, you know, time is such a crucial factor, when you’re delivering good bespoke quality dental care.

[Dhru]
It’s that I mean, you know, I can expand that a little bit more. I know, we are talking NHS and private. And I know, we’re talking that’s something very UK specific. Right?

[Jaz]
Exactly.

[Dhru]
If you think about it, if people think a bit, sort of thinking wider, and you bring a slightly different topic of dental tourism into this, so you’re talking about, you know, people going off to Eastern Europe or Turkey or other countries to have their dental treatment done. And we get this misconception in the same way that Oh, they’re going to those countries, it must be crapped industry, but it’s not. And it’s the same thought process that, again, it boils down to there are certain clinics out there that just deliver top quality of care, that has an attention to detail that isn’t about private dentistry, it’s the focus is back to where we start, which is quality of care. And the quality of care is what ultimately, we are aiming for. And it’s finding the solution to that. Now, a lot of people move into private dentistry because they’re not constrained by two things. One is the time. And the second, well, you’re still constrained by time, you can’t spend forever on something. You know, but the time constraints are different.

[Jaz]
And the contract.

[Dhru]
And the second thing is regulation, and the contract rate regulation, you know, NHS is getting more and more bureaucratic. And I think that’s where the frustrations lie. Sometimes I understand that,

[Jaz]
you know, you know, Dhru when I see those Facebook post saying, am I allowed to claim this? Or I’m allowed to claim that? Or is this material allowed? I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with that bs anymore.

[Dhru]
You can say that, you know, the other day somebody was talking about a course of how to you know, we’re running a BD IC or something about how to claim and understand the system and people saying different things, you know, why do they Why do people have to pay for this course? Surely, if they’re working systems paid for free, I said, the most disappointing thing about this is people working in the system have to spend time away learning about the system, when they should be learning about the skills and knowledge to be able to deliver better patient outcomes. You know, I mean,

[Jaz]
That’s well said,

[Dhru]
You know, you, that’s what I’ve stood for over the last 10 years. I mean, I worked within the hospital and not criticizing the hospital. But I almost quit dentistry, because of the bureaucratic nightmare that the hospitals used to be. And I understand they’re probably even more bureaucratic now, I guess. It’s not easy for anybody to function within that and that’s not how you look after patients. It kind of you know, how bad in great pisses me off. We’re here to look after patients, cut the paperwork bullshit out and let us get on with the work we do.

[Jaz]
So Dhru, let’s just dive into that. That’s exactly why I wanted to. When I came back from Singapore, I want to only look at private practices. And when I was looking for a job, and you know, you were amazing in terms of helping me as well, you put me in the right contacts, and I now work in practice in three clinics. And I’m very happy now with the balance I have. And I certainly wouldn’t be able to do the treatments I’m doing now, if I was sort of bounded by a contract, or certainly I wouldn’t be able to do it ethically up me, this is me. I know some people can but this is I’m talking about in the individual level. And it’s interesting, because when I was getting advice from you Dhru, I had like a little bit of like an imposter syndrome going on this time last year. I don’t know if you remember, I was messaging you. And I was like, Dhru, I don’t think I could do this. Like, Are you sure you think I’m good enough? And I had that. And certainly when I look back on it now, one year later. I’m totally good enough. I know, I think that, you know, if you have that voice in your head saying that, Oh, I’m going to stay in my comfort zone, I’m going to stay in the same place I am, then that is really holding you back. And if you think that you want to work in a different environment, ie private dentistry, then do not think you’re not worth it. I think with the right attitude, anyone can do it.

[Dhru]
Yeah, I think you’re right. Absolutely. And that’s why I said you could because you know what? The best and the biggest growth comes when you’re inside the box. Always. I mean, I’ve learned that in the last 10 years, I’ve you know, I’ve been right on the cliff edge, and somehow pulled myself back from it. And I realized that’s where the biggest growth happened because you’re pushing your limits and potential. And we don’t do silly things. Fair enough. But

[Jaz]
This is my favorite thing to talk about, Dhru, if you’re comfortable, you’re not growing.

[Dhru]
You’re not growing, you’re not growing at all. And but this is the other thing about so. I’ll tell you a story. And the story is of a dentist who worked in NHS dentistry within the UK. This dentist then moved back abroad back to their home of abode where they had no public health care based system. And this dentist messaged me and said, I’m not getting any patients. I don’t know what to do. My bosses are not giving me any patients and I’m meant to be an associate here. And when they do give me patients, they don’t help me. All sorts of things like that. I said, Yeah, because number one, in the UK, when you put that big board out there NHS patients walk in,

[Jaz]
yep, gets the punters in.

[Dhru]
So one of those challenges one state but one of the challenges is, is if there was no NHS, you had to stand on your own two feet, you would immediately start learning marketing skills, you know, skills that and make people aware of your presence. The second thing she said is, you know, my bosses aren’t give me patients, I said you will have to find all the patients. And you know, what happens as well is because this dentist had to find all the patients, when the patients come in, in an ultra competitive market. She has to have all the skill sets. So this dentist in have skill sets of implants or you know, advanced preparations. Now this dentist had to go on these courses. So what I suggest is, because otherwise the patients will go somewhere else, right? Yeah, in those countries, you don’t say I’m going to refer you on because when you say I’m referring you on, the patient’s go, this person doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I’m going to go to somebody better. Now, ultimately, so what when you talk private dentistry, it isn’t about just patient quality of care, it’s about the fact that you don’t have that umbrella of the NHS anymore, which brings the punters in or you can refer this, you know, people you don’t retreat. Ultimately, it grows you personally and professionally. And that means you pushing yourself out of the box. So it is a mindset you need to have and you’ve had it that’s why I said you’re ready for it. Right? I was not talking about sales.

[Jaz]
And I appreciated your push in the back, you know, you gave me the kick. And I needed that. And I think if you’re listening to this at the moment, and you need that kick, go for it, you are totally worth it. You know, if you’re even considering private practice, you’re probably someone who’s really passionate about dentistry, and you don’t want the NHS to ruin your life. And again, I am not slagging off the NSH here, it’s fantastic work done. But this is specifically for people who are considering it, but they’re just not final push

[Dhru]
I think so. I mean, we wouldn’t select the NHS off, but we know their constraints. And I think one of the biggest things that dentistry needs to do now is really grow. I think the situation is that stage where if they don’t grow, they’ll be doing themselves an injustice at a certain level. And they’ll be doing the patient’s an injustice. that’s ultimately what I see.

[Jaz]
So it’s simple swim in for the future, I think. So I want to talk to you a few more topics in particular. One I’m going to get on to short while is that when is the optimum time for a new graduate or anyone to go into private entry. But before we get onto that, I wrote down a few things, which I thought were important for me when I was making that transition into private practice that some things that I told bullet pointed, many years ago actually thinking right here are things I need to focus on. And it’s things that my mentors taught me. A lot of it, Hap Gill, taught me and lectures and whatnot, and you know, lots of these influential people. And I’m just gonna list them here, Dhru, and you know, I’m going to add you to this list, if you can think of anything we can expand on these. Okay? So first one is investments, okay? And to me, that’s investment in loupes, magnification, illumination, photography, okay? It’s courses so you can advance your education, so that you can not have to be a glorified therapist, you can actually be doing proper dentistry, you know, beyond single tooth dentistry, so that you can learn to diagnose so that you can learn to communicate so courses encompasses so much. And also, that feeds back to investment because investment is also a significant amount of money. I think. I’ve spent, you know, ridiculous amounts of money, but I’m happy for it. I’ve seen my income grow, you know, year on year because of it. And I think investing in yourself in your education is one of the most important things. Okay, so that’s, that comes part and parcel that. The next one, Dhru is having mentors, okay. Being really good with communication with patients, and also with clinicians. And the last one is, which really helped me was having a good portfolio.

[Dhru]
Yes, I think. So, it all ties in into a long, you know, a story. And there’s one final piece of the puzzle that you missed, or probably you had it, but you didn’t realize you had it.

[Jaz]
Perfect. No, tell me this is this is amazing.

[Dhru]
This is the puzzle, right? So the first thing I said is you’ve, in fact, I’d say you, you know two things at either end of what you said, the first thing is the mindset, if you don’t have the mindset, you can invest your life into things, but you’re not going to get the results out of it. And when I say mindset, you have to be ready to have that mindset that I’m going to do things that are challenging, and it’s going to be tough, but worthwhile. The second is a mindset that yes, I’m now going to make that change because I’m ready to grow. And doing things along those lines. Your mindset has to be the change comes from inside, not from outside. But I can see a lot of people succeeding through Facebook dentistry, what are they doing, alter the same thing. Because a lot of people end up on courses, which are you know, I’m going on a course about smile design, or on going on a course that teaches me how to correct teeth, orthodontically and then put some composite bonding on and why are you doing that? Oh, because that’s what gets the cash in because the others are doing, that’s wrong. That’s wrong. So the first piece of mindset, so that the big, big investment has to be on mindset. And that comes from what you said, getting the right mentor and getting the right mentor. You know, your mentors are not just dentists to you who you can many people think a mentor is somebody I can go visit and somebody will visit be watching treatments. And no,

[Jaz]
No, no, a mentor can be someone you can follow as well you’ve never actually met that can still be a mentor, would you agree?

[Dhru]
Absolutely. And find the right mentors, but the strong investment is huge. Because when your mindset is correct, you know, that part’s gonna be hard, you get ready to invest. And, you know, I’m still paying off my mind some of my debts from years ago and whatever but and I did the MClinDent lucky the fees weren’t high, and I won’t lie. I got to a stage where I couldn’t invest in my education. So instead I invested in Tubules and got education through that

[Jaz]
You’ve not only got so much education, you’ve educated so many others. I’m so glad you took that so.

[Dhru]
It’s a win-win, but you’re then you invest in your education and you invest in the equipment, which will enhance your education, things like loupes, things like magnification, things like cameras, right? The interest because if you’re in the right mindset number one. Number two, you’ve invested in education. And number three, your investment in equipment like cameras will loop it back to the fact that hold on let me take a photo Let me have a look at the pictures of the work I did. How does it look who Oh, it looks great. It looks brilliant. Oh, this doesn’t look great. Suddenly you’re educating and the loop between investment in equipment and investment in education closes up a lot more. Do you see? That you then move on to the stage where you think you know what I will find a mentor and you know we have like Rob already and I often serve Email Rob and say just take this case. And Bob sort of replies back saying to your or not, but you get feedback. And it’s, that’s your mentor, because your mentor can now see the results of your investment. Because your education leads to you doing things which your equipment is capturing for you to get feedback from a mentor. But the last key and the last loop amongst this is the community you surround yourself with huge now you had Tubules directors, Tubules study clubs, whatever, you had a community.

[Jaz]
Aweome. Amazing people, I’m not going to begin to name any, because I know I’ll miss some people out but they’ll be the people who are part of the director group honestly have such a huge influence absolute privilege. I mean, I’m it’s gonna sound really weird, but I’m actually really privileged in the same whatsapp group.

[Dhru]
Exactly. But that’s a community. That’s what I mean. So you’re talking about two ends of the you talked about the fact of invest in education, invest in equipment, have a mentor, but on first side of that chain, is the fact that get the mindset correct. On the last side of that chain, is get the community correct, involved yourself and get connecting with the right people, there’s a standard saying, you are, you know, 95% of you is like the five people, you can, you know, surround yourself with most of the time some

[Jaz]
Yeah, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with it for sure. And you can have that in professionally as well. So the five, you know, people that you five dentist or whoever you spend the most time or you speak the most with, you know, you’ll be the average of that. So you need to you know, if you’re stuck somewhere, you need to up your game, you need to be speaking to really passionate, empowering, clinically gifted people who can really you know, lift your game just by being around them and absorbing like a sponge, what they have to say. So that’s an awesome point. Anything want to add to that before we move to the next one?

[Dhru]
I think that’s, to me, the full key. So first thing is getting to a community. Second thing is get into the mindset, then start investing. I mean, I get so many young dentists will come to observe me and I say, yeah, that’s fine. And if you’re observing me, you’ll help me. Do you not use a camera. No. And I said, that’s the first thing you should have done, you should, you know, spend time, invest in an SLR and use it. So I will teach you how to use that first. So you know, it’s that sort of improvement, but they at least have the right mindset to contact me and say, probably come and watch your work. I don’t know how much they learn. You know, they’re better dentists out there than me. But if I can give them some sort of a boost of, you know, energy, I’m more than happy to make them, you know, inspired. That’s the right word, probably.

[Jaz]
And that will help them to make their portfolio and so on and so forth and up their game. So that’s awesome. All right. There’s the next thing is what, when is the best time? For something? I’m just asking this like a rhetorical question, we need to answer it. But you know, someone might say, Oh, am I ready? When is the best time? How many years after dental school? Should I go private? I mean, you give me your answer. I’ll tell you what I think.

[Dhru]
Personally, I think maybe between two and three years is a good time to be, three years perhaps is a decent time to try and think about the change. Now, the reason I say that is year one, invariably, you end up doing DFT most people do. There’s a handful of brave souls have send VTs and for me, and going down the extreme private, complete private route. And I think those are brave but good souls, because they immediately you see their mindset is completely focused on quality.

[Jaz]
I mean, that level of maturity. So you know, that’s a level of maturity, you know, they’ve they’ve got, they’ve made a bold decision, and they’ve stopped by and I think, you know, the most of the stories I’ve heard these people have, you know, been doing well, and you know, I’m really happy for them. But that might not be a reality for most people, certainly for me.Even after df one, I don’t think I was ready. I mean, I could I it’s about being sort of lucky, the jack of all trades, there’s no point in just being really awesome at composites, and then not being able to remove teeth, a atraumatically section elevating, you know, how your surgical skill, the sort of bread and butter needs to be good as well, before you can really be confident in private practice because I think patients can smell it, a patient can smell confidence, and the way you come across the way you speak. So if you’ve had lots of failures, right, then you know, you’re you’re going to be stronger and better for it. So sometimes, for me earlier on, I cultivated lots of failures. I don’t want to talk about the number of times a perforated holding endo and not on loads of endo and I do I still do loads of endo now. And I’ve learned so much from those past mistakes I made. So sometimes you need to be in a safe environment. And I’m not saying that you’re allowed to perforate in the NHS or allowed to perforate in the private because that’d be ridiculous. What I’m trying to say is that you need to be wherever you are sort of honing your skills and You’re going to be making mistakes, and you have to sort of be careful that you’re not biting off more than you can chew too early.

[Dhru]
I think you have to understand your limitations, you have to start simple. But you know, like I was saying, how Wendi go, the first year is DFT. The second year is always either you remain as an associate where you are or you may decide to go into secondary care to do DCT training, you know, and I encourage everyone to do DCT and especially as hospitals are bureaucratic and everything we said, but the level of experience I got doing maxfacts, restorative etc, was something I’ll never, never, ever regret. And it’s normally two or three years after, when you think you know what, ready to take that slow step. And the slow step comes,

[Jaz]
Dhru, I just say on that before you expand, because this is a really good point actually turned one young dentist listening thing about DCT. Not all posts are created equally. So speak to someone who’s on that post before, find out if you’re just going to be you know, just writing notes for someone or you know, you actually get to learn something. So it depends on who your consultants are. So not all posts are created equally. And then the second thing to bear in mind is do DCT because you want to learn in that way. Don’t do DCT because you want to avoid being in practice. That is a real reality. And I’ve heard it because I’ve been in two DCT posts, where people have openly said, you know, whatever I can do to avoid practice. That’s my goal. So this is why you know, don’t not please, don’t let that be your main motivator for doing DCT, you actually denying someone else position who really wanted to do it.

[Dhru]
I think look, it’s a matter of fact, right? As humans, there are two reasons we do something. One is we move away from pain. And the second is we go towards pleasure. And moving away from pain is what these people are doing. The problem with moving away from pain is you don’t know where you’re going. You don’t know what your goal is. But

[Jaz]
I really like how you described

[Dhru]
But it goes back to what we said initially about the chain mindset. If your mindset has changed correctly, you will be doing all these things for the correct reason. So the people whose mindset has changed, that was a one or two points before we were talking about it. That’s the time they will go into DCT because they’re doing DCT to move towards pleasure. And that pleasure is that I want to learn about dentistry. So your second points very important. But I’m going to also talk about that first point where you said, learn about the job you want. And sometimes you’ll be a pen pusher. I did work in a hospital where I could have been a pen pusher, and I want to do it a lot but even its pen pushing. It depends on how much you applied to yourself, right? And I learned a hell of a lot working in the consultants and registrar’s. So that’s the first thing. But the second thing is that, and this is what I tell all the young dentists around, go above and beyond please, I when I was a maxfacts as a CIO, for example, I found out a young, there was a consultant in one of the other hospitals who is doing extra lists on the weekend on Saturdays on Sundays, right? Who wakes up at silly hours of the morning on Sunday, but I decided to do and I’m going to go and help this consultant because I know even if it’s just watching, I’ll pick things up. At Sunday at 7am. I used to be there in the hospital. And finish, you know, one or two weeks I watched an observe. Then the third week when the consultant came in at eight o’clock and he said, should we do the consents? Then I said don’t worry, I’ve done them all, all sorted. You just see over them. And he was well, it was taken aback because there was initiative here. And it so happened slowly but surely this consultant gained confidence or trust in me, allowed me to do procedures and the GA. And at some point it’s a I’m running late do these cases. But it came to a point where he was so happy to let me just do it myself. And he said Dhru I’m going to put you on payroll here, please, because you’re spending too many Sundays here. And eventually I got a staff great job for a while. But the situation is you had to go on a Sunday at 7am. And most of the other people in

[Jaz]
This. That’s it you you made something amazing out of what could have been a really, you know, a pen pusher scenario for the rest of your career. So that hats off to you. And I’m going to give a similar story for what happened to me. So I was at a guy’s hospital. I was doing the Oral Surgery and restorative rotation, okay, Oral Surgery rotation, pretty awesome, pretty good. Some experience mostly, you know, mostly retracting, but I learned so much from them that I’m happy take out wisdom teeth surgically now. So, in the restorative bit, it was a bit quieter for a reason I won’t get into it. So I wasn’t doing as much. I could have just wasted our time away. But instead, I use that six months to write the paper in dental update for resin bonded bridges. And I got a publication out of it and I literally spent hours and hours and hours doing it. So even though I was presented with a lot of time where I wasn’t doing In the treatment, I’m going to, I use that, you know, time to gain these skills, I learned how to read papers, I got myself published in dental update, and that’s helped me and improve me as a clinician, like big time. So if you find yourself, you know, you’re stuck, or you are now in a DCT position, and it’s not going your way, you can make something out of it just like Dhru did, just like I did, I think anyone can, and should just take a few minutes to sit down.

[Dhru]
Exactly. Apply yourself think all these sort of things need to happen. And I mean, you know, it’s all about mindset and getting ready to take that challenge from that mindset. Now, this is what we ask people, this is what we say to people that don’t just, you know, don’t just follow the treadmill. And I think half the failures happening that or half the, you know, people who end up in the treadmill, I wouldn’t call them failures. But when I say failures, I mean, failure of growth happens in that respect, when you’re not

[Jaz]
stagnation

[Dhru]
Stagnation is probably the better word when you’re not thinking beyond the box, you’re not applying beyond the box. And you have to do that day in day out in whatever you do. I mean, I probably do less of that in dentistry at the moment, more of that in Tubules, perhaps. But I’m still doing it day in day out, I’m thinking where do I push the barriers, might see, you know, my team think I’m mad, but that’s an advice to everyone. And if you do that, you automatically find yourself growing. And if you automatically find yourself growing, you will just find that you want to then do things, which are higher quality, or better quality, whatever it is. And as a result, you find yourself, you know, delivering much higher patient care, which you know, I’m going to do this privately, and you have the confidence, you have the energy to do it. And when we’re talking about upskilling, don’t forget, upskilling isn’t just clinical dentistry. Upskilling is education skills and everything else that comes with it as well.

[Jaz]
One bit of advice, I just, you know, randomly read on Facebook, from, you know, sort of things that you just read, one of the comments is for every clinical course you do do a non clinical course. And I really like that philosophy, you know, I mean, not that I probably do as mean non clinical, as I do clinical, but it’s just, that’s how important non clinical is as well and to apply that. So as a very. Last thing, Dhru. One more thing to discuss now is there’s these salaried posts going around about 35k. You get some mentorship, you work about four days a week, one day you shadow, What’s your take on that? This is private practice.

[Dhru]
Yes, it is. And people have asked about it, etc. And like I said, I think, yeah, my take on those, it all depends on the practice and what you want to achieve at the end of the day. Some of them are very good practices, and for somebody to, you know, offer you that post and be a good mentor, I probably would jump at that opportunity. Because I think Dentists have to get ready for the fact if they’re not yet that, you know, salaries are not going to be high for a long time. And if you can get a mentor in a private practice at a certain PayScale, 35 K’s you know, it’s sensible money, just go for it, take it, because you’re not going to translate that

[Jaz]
Dhru 35k I just you know, that’s still a very decent money for someone who is quite new out of dental school. I mean, come on, guys. I mean, the last actually even compared that to the UK averages. It’s good. So I agree with you, I think it’s a good opportunity. It depends on the reason why that post has become available to if they’re posted become available, because someone thinks they want to give back to a young dentist and mentor them and hopefully grow them so that they can you know work and to the best potential within that practice for the future with a long term outlook then great, but if it’s out there, and you know, who knows how to gauges but if it’s if that posts only exists, because the principal wants to shaft their patients out who they can’t be be able to treat or low value patients so that you can just do some glorified hygiene therapy work, then that’s not on. So I think you’ve got to do a little bit of homework and stuff.

[Dhru]
I think again, you know, we we say glorified hygiene therapy work and this is not demeaning. Any hygienist therapist because they do a great job. I tell you something, and this is something I have realized as well, is that you know, even doing that sort of work, if in the right environment, your basic restorative skills can really shoot up and ultimately that’s the foundation for good dentistry. So if you’re doing you know, what do you call the hygiene work, suddenly your periodontal skills are shooting up. During the therapy work, your restorative skills are shooting up and I translate that to you get a good ability to build some solid core for future crowns, or you’ll have inability to build some solid skills in communication and basic periodontal treatment for patients in the future. So even those jobs can have their own advantages, saying that I’m obviously someone who finds silver lining in every running cloud. I, you know, I think there’s some serious benefit in that as well. The question is, what do you want to do? And what do you want out of your mentor, and what is your mentor achieve, and all of these sorts of things come around. And I think that’s the important bit here. You know, even if, if they were given basic basic work, they’re still, you know, you get three, four years out of dental school, that’s a job worth looking at. I mean, I worked at the middle of Wales, where I need nobody for three, you know, and I built a kind of a sort of life there. But I stayed in a practice where I could work six days a week, because I had nothing else to do, but had some good mentors and had some really good support. And it wasn’t NHS practice. It was a big NHS contract it was sort of that time before there’s fee for item and then uda, but we delivered some good quality care, and I learned some really good skills. In fact, that’s one of the things I’ll tell young dentists, if you’re not tied down by family, and other issues, you know, responsibilities moving out of the big cities into areas where, you know, dentistry is really needed by patients go and do a few years, you just don’t know. I mean, I spent three years in Welschbillig, one of the best memories of my time come from there. Now, at places like Lincoln, or certain outreaches of Scotland, dying for dentists, you know,so many practices looking for it. And those practice owners will appreciate you coming there. And so many of them will even spend extra time mentoring you. And you know, people are, my friends are in London, listen, your friends are always going to be in London. But if you’re really focused on building your career to a certain level, this is what we’ll do. So even if you’re being offered in the outreaches, 35k, with someone as a mentor, but great find out the mentor skills what education is a mentor? What are the mentors interest? Is their interests?

[Jaz]
values align with your values

[Dhru]
Absolutely. Do their values align? Do their interests align? And if you can do that, you know what? You it’s out jump, It’s such an opportunity. I mean, I can’t do and just, you know, I am, what makes me think is so many people want to stay back in or they want to stay where they grew up, or where they’re comfortable. Oh, no, but I know people around here. And I just think goes back to it, your best growth happens when you move away from your circle. And I think people need to do that. it’s obviously not easy, but it is easy, anybody could do it. So go for it get and that’s only by your do it, think out of the box, extremely, usually apply yourself. And maybe then you will find ways to develop yourself, grow yourself and find the right opportunities to build a happy, successful and satisfying career in dentistry. You know, that’s my viewpoint. Amazing.

[Jaz]
That’s amazing. And I want to finish it out. Because that’s such a powerful thing to end on. And I think you know, there’s a few little gems in there. But I think why like, the reason I am I’m so glad I chose you to speak about this topic. Because the extra dimension that you brought into this above and beyond what I sort of read out was the whole mindset philosophy. And I think that’s the take home message of this podcast, you can have the portfolio, you can invest in loupes, you can get invest in the camera, you can go on all the courses, you can do the whole curriculums out there, you can focus on making your communication amazing. Your portfolio will be vast and really diverse. But you really need to make sure that your mindset is in the right place. And that’s what I think I’ve learned today to pass on to everyone. So Dhru, thanks so much for speaking on Protrusive Dental podcast today. You were awesome. And I want to encourage everyone to become part of Dentinal Tubules. I mean, it’s tax deductible is so cheap. There’s hundreds of courses on there. What are you doing if you’re not on Tubules right now I mean, if you’re thinking of being in private practice, and you’re on Tubules, then I see those as antagonists. I mean, it just doesn’t make sense.

[Dhru]
No, it’s not. A lot of people think it’s CPD. Yes, you get CPD for it, but it’s education. And CPD is a bonus, but it’s about education and inspiring people to be the best that they can be everyday, you know in our group of people. Our dentists, our community, our members help each other because we want to help each other to do exactly what we said, Get into the inspired mindset. And if you’re in that mindset, my friend, nobody can stop you to believe and do the best you can be. Ultimately that’s what I believe.

[Jaz]
Awesome. Thanks so much, Dhru.

[Dhru]
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you inviting me.

Jaz’s Outro: Okay guys, I hope you enjoyed that session with Dhru. I think there’s loads of great tips inside there. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it on Facebook or Instagram. Write me a review on iTunes or Stitcher or Google podcasts, wherever you listen to this today. I want to give a shout out to everyone working under the NHS actually, I think you guys do a fine fine job out there. Private dentistry is not all that is made out to be. It’s all about the mindset of the Principal mindset, the practice, and I hope you guys have success in finding the place that you really want to be at and you deserve to be. So thanks so much for listening. Catch in the next one. Thank you.