The American Dental Dream – PDP002

Jaz’s Introduction:
Today is all about moving to the U S of A. Even if you’re not interested in moving to the USA, I think every one of us post qualifying from a UK or international dental school, has actually wondered, I wonder what it takes to move to the USA, because I think very early on, we pick up this knowledge that our dental degree is not actually valid in the USA.

And there are many barriers to actually working there. So this podcast is for anyone who’s ever wondered what it takes to move to USA with your dental degree, how to obtain a license there, or perhaps you’re already midway through the process or very heavily invested or considering about moving to the USA.

This will give you lots of good tips and experiences from our guest today, Kristina Gauchan, who, she’s done very well. She’s actually been starting at Boston university to convert her dental degree to a US one. And we’ll be talking all about entrance exams, fees. The politics of it, language exams that you have to do that, I didn’t really appreciate. So we’ll be hearing all about that today.

Protrusive Dental Pearl
Before we delve into that, I want to share with you the Protrusive Dental Pearl for today’s episode. Again, this is another nonclinical episode and do not worry.

I’ve got lots of clinical stuff lined up for the future. But anyway, today’s Protrusive Dental Pearl, which is also nonclinical is a financial one. Basically, I want you to go to www.globalrichlist.net and I want you to enter your income. Okay, because this is something that is so eye opening.

You need to see that if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re likely a dentist, therapist somewhere. And actually, when you enter your figures in, I bet you’ll be probably in the top 20 million people in the world. Okay. Top 20 million richest people are probably in the top 0.3 percent of people.

And sometimes it’s really important to appreciate how lucky we are and how privileged we are to live in these countries that we live in. And to do the work that we do that is very stressful and it brings lots of reward in, which I think we’re very deserving of, but sometimes really, really important to know that we really are in the top 0. whatever percent in the world and to never forget that.

Just looking ahead at future podcasts. I’ve got lined up. I’ve got stuff about clinical microscopes, how to make it affordable and practice. I’ve got specialization routes, emklin dense, becoming a registrar and let’s say restorative dentistry and all these routes that you tend to consider at any one stage of your professional career.

So we’ll be delving deeper into that, a few occlusion topics lined up. So, I’ve got lots of great content coming. So please subscribe on either iTunes, Google podcasts. I’m now on Spotify as well. So share the love and I’ll look forward to connecting with you more. So let’s listen up to Kristina Gauchan interview with her, which I think is such a great resource for anyone who’s even vaguely thinking about moving to the USA. Enjoy.

Main Episode:
Yeah. Tell everyone who’s listening right now a little bit about yourself, where you qualified from, what you did after you qualified and how you ended up in the USA.

[Kristina]
Okay, sure. So my name is Kristina Gauchan. I graduated exactly three and a half years ago, 2015. Since then I have, I did my VT in Ipswich Deanery.

So that’s Southeast of England. That’s where my family live. So yeah, that was the year flew by. And then after that I was an associate for about a year and a half. Before I decided that was it and I wanted to try and pursue my career in America.

[Jaz]
And for those of you who don’t know you, I mean, obviously you’ve married someone who’s from the US, right? So that’s obviously been your sort of background. And had it not been for that, you probably may not be in the USA right now, would you say?

[Kristina]
Exactly. No, that’s exactly it. I don’t think I would have, because obviously there’s quite a few hurdles to get through. We’ll get into that detail a bit more, but yeah, for me that he was the main thing, let’s say.

[Jaz]
Sure, sure. Well done to him. So he managed to kidnap you and take you to the USA and that is a super daunting for you, what were your thoughts when you, this is becoming a reality to you. You’re about to move to the USA. What were you thinking and how did you even start? Where does one begin? Where do you start?

[Kristina]
That’s the biggest question I think and that’s one of the hardest step, I would say, is actually deciding if this is it for you or not. Because obviously people research, people, read up about it, but really when they know it’s actually happening, I think that’s one of the biggest things to make that first step.

So for me, for me and my husband, we wanted some country where it’s our careers are going to be progressive for both of us. Obviously, we’ve both studied, so we wanted something that’s good for bigger opportunities for both of us.

[Jaz]
And Sumit is non-medical, non-dental, is that right?

[Kristina]
Non dental, yes. He’s in software engineering, so, IT consultant, yeah. He makes softwares. I don’t know too much about that.

[Jaz]
That’s fine. The show is all about you, not him today, so it’s fine.

[Kristina]
Yeah, it’s awful. But-

[Jaz]
So you decided that it would work, but where does one start? Where do you even begin to find out more about it. And I suppose for a lot of people, it might be difficult. That’s why we’re bringing you on the show today so they can learn, how to go about it. So what is the first step, Kristina, to working with the BDS in the USA?

[Kristina]
So, I would say there’s a great Facebook group for a lot of pursuing international dentists because it, so no matter where you trained, it’s the same steps. So, for me, I researched online, there’s great websites, international dentists website to qualify and work in the U S. There’s lots of resources out there. So for me, I started reading up about that. I reached out to my friend’s family, whoever’s done the same. And I found that a few have done the same as me.

Luckily, there was a girl just above me, in a dental school. And she actually literally, I think she’s even skipped her VT. And I remember that she was doing this. And for me, I was like, wow, that’s amazing. So, I asked her for everything.

[Jaz]
It’s so useful to have someone, right? Who’s, so you can follow in their footsteps, like almost like a mentor to you.

[Kristina]
Exactly. So she was really great. And I think I bought her my, but you need that because you read so much online as well. And you think, oh, I could actually, when it comes down to it, there’s actually a little thing that you find that, they are quite strict on, so you do need to really follow the guidelines and it’s hard, isn’t it?

But luckily, I had her, I had a few other, my husband’s Sumit So friends had done the same thing. So they qualified in India and Nepal. So for me, it was the same route we take. So it doesn’t matter where you qualify anywhere out of the US or Canada. So you have to do this two to three years of extra training. It’s essentially going back to dental school, the last two years of dental school, let’s say.

[Jaz]
And how is it determined whether it’s two years or three years that you have to do?

[Kristina]
It just depends on the program. So there’s obviously 50 states. There’s lots of dental schools. Each one has different curriculums. And they all have different timelines as well.

[Jaz]
And how do you decide which one’s the right one for you? And how competitive are these places for internationals?

[Kristina]
Very competitive. I did a bit of research and on average it’s about 20 places maybe for about a thousand applicants and I know that sounds really crazy.

[Jaz]
Nationally?

[Kristina]
So internationally that’s for us.

[Jaz]
No, is it like in the whole of US only 20 per year?

[Kristina]
I think US is a bit easier because they have a lot bigger intakes. I’m talking about international program you see. So, there’s about 30 odd dental schools in the U. S. that accept international dentists as students. Does that make sense?

[Jaz]
Fine, so 30 dental schools that accept international students and how many would they each take on per year, roughly? I mean, do you know this?

[Kristina]
Yes, it’s from 5 and it can be up to 80. So it’s a big, big contract. So average, probably 20 to 25.

[Jaz]
Internationals?

[Kristina]
Just internationals. With the national, and what they do is they join you in with the nationals. Does that make sense?

[Jaz]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kristina]
You all go to third year together. And obviously the ratio is going to be high. It’s almost like graduates join second year. It’s just like that.

[Jaz]
Okay. And you had to go, well, before we come on to how you interviewed for all that, I want to know entrance exams. Okay. So how many exams are there? How difficult is this? Where can you get help? And how many sittings per year? All that sort of stuff. Tell us about the exams.

[Kristina]
Sure, sure. So initially the main hurdle is the National Board of Dental Exams. So there’s part one and part two. So part one is quite simple. Although it’s a little more sort of science based, it’s purely anatomy, biochemistry, microbiology, pathology and dental anatomy. So it’s an eight hour exam and you do get breaks.

So this is just the beginning, remember you get breaks every hour, so it’s up to you. You can manage your time quite well, but yes, they give you enough time, multiple choice questions, and it’s 400 questions, so a hundred in each category.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Kristina]
And you know what? It does sound a lot, but, and at first I was just dreading it, but you can do it. It just needs a maybe a few months of practice. So a lot of really, I think you do need to, people do it on top of their jobs. I know people who have done these exams with a full-time job, and I really praise them, with families and things like that.

[Jaz]
Hats off to them. Yeah.

[Kristina]
For me, yes. Hats off exactly. For me, I was really lucky, having a supporting husband. I took about six months out and I literally just moved there and I was stuck in my room and I just got on with it and that’s the only way I knew I could do it.

[Jaz]
Very good. And so that’s part one, is it?

[Kristina]
That’s part one, yes.

[Jaz]
And do you know roughly a couple of things about part one exams? What is the pass rate or failure rate, even that? And also what are the fees like?

[Kristina]
Yes. So fees, roughly all the exams about 500 dollars maybe a little bit more, 550. It goes up every year, I believe that’s dollars and obviously, the flights, things like that. So I guess you have to take that into account. But yes, it was about 500. Yeah.

[Jaz]
And the pass rate, what’s the pass rate?

[Kristina]
The pass rate, I would say it really depends because I don’t think there’s like I reckon there’s a different pass rate for dental school, dental students, national students, and international dentists, because we’re having to learn this on our own.

Whereas what traditionally happens is then the U. S. students actually do this on their second year, this board of exams, part one. They’re obviously taught it, aren’t they? So it’s like, for us, it’s like doing it during our second year of dental school. So I feel like they’re obviously got a lot higher pass rate compared to the international dentists.

[Jaz]
And what is the pass rate? What is the pass mark? Like, 50 percent or?

[Kristina]
Usually you need about 75. They don’t give you a figure, but you need at least 60 percent or above. It is my it’s a weighting. So it really depends.

[Jaz]
Again, it’s a weighted exam. Okay.

[Kristina]
They don’t give you figures. So they literally just say pass or fail. Initially, they used to it was up. I heard out of 99 and you need about 75. But I think yeah, now it’s no figures to it. That’s why it’s quite difficult to gauge.

[Jaz]
I see. And where are the centres in which you sit? Is there one in every state or?

[Kristina]
Yes, one in every state. So yeah, but most, so you know where you do your driving exam and where you get your other license exams is somewhere like that. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay. So you’ve just passed part one. You did that’s really cool. And then how long do you have to wait until you can do part two and tell us about part two then?

[Kristina]
Yeah. Yeah. It takes about two to three weeks to get your results. So they want to know that you passed your part one first. So you obviously wait for that to apply for your part two exam. So yes, few weeks later, just book it straight away. So, you know and you can book it a few months in advance up to you. So part two is a lot easier. So it’s literally finals, finals BDS, literally easier. I think, I mean, the only extra subject is pharmacology. The rest is literally, we should know everything, just recap your finals.

[Jaz]
And how many hours is this and how many centres are there? Tell us about that.

[Kristina]
So the same centres this is a two day exam, one and a half day, let’s say. So it’s again an eight hour the first day. And then the next day- Yes, MCQs, all MCQs. So, in a way, it’s quite lengthy.

[Jaz]
Like, clinical, like about root canals, to restoration, crowns, everything.

[Kristina]
Restorative, perio paediatrics, ortho as well. Yeah, radiology, oral surgery, and oral pathology and pharmacology. That was, do you know what, again, it’s very doable. At first, I was really dreading this. But I did this within a month. Because I was in a tight time frame. I needed to-

[Jaz]
You had the pressure.

[Kristina]
I had the pressure, exactly. I had a holiday coming up, actually.

[Jaz]
Fair enough.

[Kristina]
And I was like, I don’t want to be doing this afterwards. So I literally did it like a few days before we left for our holidays.

[Jaz]
And this one is the same exam that the U. S. sort of dental students do as well, or not really?

[Kristina]
Yes, yes. So the dental students do this actually in their fourth year, so actually in the final year. So again, that’s why I could really relate to it being like the final BDS exam. So yeah, it is interesting. And it’s one and a half day. So the first day is like in 400 questions of MCQs. The second day is all scenario based.

So it’s probably fewer questions, probably about 50, but there’s scenarios. So, you know they’ll give you a patient bio. They’ll give you the medical history. They’ll give you the symptoms. They’ll give you full mouth periapicals OPG as well. They’re very detailed. So, you’re not sort of stuck in any way you can.

[Jaz]
So it’s like an OSCE is it or?

[Kristina]
Yes, OSCE, that’s what I was looking for.

[Jaz]
Yeah, fine. So it’s an OSCE, but are you actually cutting any teeth? Are you actually showing your preps?

[Kristina]
There is no practical, it’s all on the computer. But it’s scenario-based questions. So you’ll be obviously asked some tricky questions, but it really is not. I think we overthink it, don’t we? We always just worry too much thinking, oh, they’re trying to trick us, but really they’re not. They just want to test your knowledge. And it’s funny cause like for me, then I realized that, actually teeth are teeth and people are people everywhere. It’s not that challenging at all.

[Jaz]
So compared to, obviously you qualify from Liverpool. We did the finals in a UK well respected UK dental school. How is the difficulty of the finals in UK compared to what you did in the US?

[Kristina]
So the part two exam, do you mean in relation?

[Jaz]
Yeah. I mean, was it similar to sort of what we would get here in the UK?

[Kristina]
Yes, yes, exactly. So that’s what I mean is, is you could probably even study just a few days for that exam, really like people who are on top of their knowledge, because if you’re practicing dentistry, I think these things come to you. They are quite obvious things. It’s just a few, like the nitty gritty, the figures and then the doses, things like that. You just have to brush up on, but it is definitely doable.

[Jaz]
Good. What I’m doing in my head while you’re telling me about the exams is I’m comparing the ORE sort of exams that we have in the UK compared to what you’ve just described. And the ORE, actually sounds much scarier and the pass rates are lower.

And obviously you’re cutting teeth and you’re showing preps, but the difference is Kristina is obviously once you’ve done the exams. You still can’t practice, whereas ORE, once you’ve gone to part two, that you can start practicing in a way, right? So now, that leads us very nicely to the next bit. You’ve got your exams, and so you a-

[Kristina]

We also need to do TOEFL test, so the English exam.

[Jaz]
No way-

[Kristina]
You have to if you’re a UK citizen or not, they don’t care.

[Jaz]
This is ridiculous. You have a UK BDS and you have to sit an English exam.

[Kristina]
Yes, and that was actually quite tough for me because obviously I’m using my second language, isn’t it?

[Jaz]
Oh, interesting.

[Kristina]
So I was just laughing to myself, and my husband was laughing at me. He was like, you don’t need to study. And I was like, I probably should have studied. I mean, I got 85%, but really I want, I should have been getting 95. You want that top mark if you can. But I just thought-

[Jaz]
And what’s the pass mark? Just out of interest for anyone listening, what’s the pass mark?

[Kristina]
Well, there isn’t a pass fail in the TOEFL, so there’s like a grade, it’s a grading system. So, the higher you get, obviously, the better. So, it’s out of 120. Usually, dentists will want at least 95 to 100. So that’s probably about 80 percent that want, yeah, at least. It does depend but yeah. So, that’s a horrible exam.

[Jaz]
So, you got the language test out of the way. So, what’s next?

[Kristina]
The next is also we have to translate our qualifications. So, our transcripts so, on our fine graduation, they give us all these papers with our exam results from year one to year two BGS year five.

Sorry. So they need that translated So there’s a there’s two main bodies that do this ECE Educational Credential Evaluators and WES and they they so you have to pay again. It’s all money, that’s another thing. It’s it’s quite a bit of investment initially later to get these-

[Jaz]
And how long does that take to get done?

[Kristina]
At least a month, I’d say, yeah, because they want it directly, sealed copy from your university. So you can imagine, I was calling up, Liverpool University, they’re like, oh, I need to send this here, then this, that. But they were, they were great though, really helpful.

[Jaz]
And how supportive were Liverpool Uni in helping you?

[Kristina]
They were great, actually, yeah, they’re good on email. They’re not the quickest so I know other schools, I think, are quicker, and it’s all online, electronic service now, whereas us. I graduated in 15, so I had to ask for a paper copy and they had to DHL or FedEx it to the office in, yeah, so that all just takes time and money and more, it’s chasing them up and making sure. That’s one criteria.

Another is also in the application for dental schools, they’ll need about three letters of evaluation. So they like one to be from your dean and one to be from your tutor or a boss or anyone. So yeah, they’re the main things.

[Jaz]
Okay, brilliant. So now you’ve got all that, are you still, are you ready yet to apply?

[Kristina]
Yes, yes. Just about.

[Jaz]
That’s a lot of hurdles. Okay. But this is the meaty thing now. So you’re going to apply. Tell us about this crazy application procedure now.

[Kristina]
Yeah. So, like I said, we’re a little limited, so about 30 schools you can choose from. And the good thing is you can apply to as many as you can, but obviously each application costs you at least 300, let’s say. Yeah. So it’s not free. It’s not like UCAS. That’s a shame. Luckily, we can apply to as many as we want. So the more you apply, the more chances you’ve got getting in.

[Jaz]
And like with the uni, is there a specific, like, for example, back in UCAS days, we had to apply between this month and that month. Is it similar? Like every year?

[Kristina]
Yeah, yeah. So each time of the deadline, absolutely. Yeah. So they start from March every year. Some schools are different, but usually the deadlines are by the summer. So July, August, the majority of the deadlines close. So you’ve got that three to four month period.

That doesn’t mean that you have to apply within those dates. There are other schools that apply a bit that open a bit later as well. But the bulk of them you know, at least 70 percent of the schools have these the spring term, let’s say spring to summer.

[Jaz]
Then how long do they take to get back to you? And then when would you start the dental school? Let’s call it the dental school.

[Kristina]
So you have to obviously apply the year before. So say it’s the 19, it’s the 20 cycle you wanna apply for. You have to apply this year. Does that make sense?

[Jaz]
Yeah. So you would’ve applied last March, right?

[Kristina]
Yeah, March to June I applied.

[Jaz]
And when would you start?

[Kristina]
The interviews are a few months later. If then obviously if they like you, and then I start in July. So it’s quite a late start date. It’s one of the latest.

[Jaz]
So you’re going to start in July, 2019.

[Kristina]
Yes. Yes.

[Jaz]
Okay.

[Kristina]
And hopefully finish 21. But other schools started in January. So luckily, I got the program that’s two years. But that doesn’t, I don’t know if that’s lucky actually, because I think it’s really jam packed. They said you don’t even get a break. I think you, it’s a six day uni day. It is late, late days, late nights, and only two weeks for Christmas off. And in the summer, they can’t promise a holiday. I was like, oh no. Yeah.

[Jaz]
You know, that’s very typical of the U. S. U. S. is a country where a lot of people are very hard, yes, very hard working. The average person I hear in the U. S. gets 15 days of annual leave.

[Kristina]
Yep, yep, two weeks, exactly, two weeks.

[Jaz]
Yeah, compared to, about 28 that we get here on average. So, that says, that speaks volumes. So, well done for, for getting the place. Which uni is this, sorry, that you got it?

[Kristina]
Boston University, yeah, BU. Boston.

[Jaz]
That’s amazing. That’s a really highly regarded dental school.

[Kristina]
Yes. I mean, I, for me, I really just wanted to get anywhere because I just wanted to start, you know, it’s all I was just getting really impatient. But I was very lucky. Yes. Yes. And they were great. They’re lovely. Do you, there’s a few other things. So with the criteria, obviously each school has specific criteria is what they prefer, their requirements.

Other than the National Board of Exams TOEFL they also sometimes prioritize permanent residents. It doesn’t mean you have to be though. So, people with green card or, so again, that’s something to consider, but you most do, cause it was internationally if they have the program most accept visas, student visas.

[Jaz]
So sure. Sure. Yeah. Is that what you have? You have a student visa or?

[Kristina]
Lucky. I have a green card, so I’ve obviously got it from my husband. So I was quite lucky in that regard as well. Also, another thing. So with the interviews and bench tests, have you heard about bench test?

[Jaz]
Nope.

[Kristina]
So, you mentioned the cut teeth. You also, some schools want that as well. So say out of 700 that apply, they interview, let’s say on average 150. And each one obviously has a- so I had about two-to-three-day interview for some of mine.

[Jaz]
Wait, wait, so you went to some interviews that were two to three days long?

[Kristina]
Two to three days, yes, yes, oh yes.

[Jaz]
Okay, and then that’s where you were like cutting teeth, and I mean just tell us a bit, give us a flavour of three days, how would, what on earth are they doing with you for three days in an interview?

[Kristina]
Yes. I know, I know. So it was the first morning is the intro. They give you a little info about their school.

They’ll introduce each other, the faculty members and you get a chance to just speak to the other let’s say, candidates as well. They’ll have lunch for you. And then in the afternoon they’ll have either a written exam or a face-to-face interview. So, like face to face with a panel.

[Jaz]
Sure.

[Kristina]
Or on one so with one of their members so that they’ll alternate days. So obviously half of you will have it on the first morning afternoon and second half would be in the second morning. Let’s say and-

[Jaz]
Are these tough interviews or are they just checking your human side?

[Kristina]
No, very casual. So they’re very nice that they’ll just want to know about you well, you know why this school, same thing interview as well my dentistry why you know our union interviews. So very very funny.

Actually, I think they’re more friendly It’s more of a chat actually, so the Americans are quite casual people. So, yeah, it wasn’t nerve wracking at all, actually, after my first, I was like, oh, this is breeze. I kind of felt like, oh, I want them to ask me something a bit more challenging or, you know. But really, it’s just a chat and they just want to know, you know if you’ll be a fit for the school, I guess, yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay, and then on the third day, what would you do?

[Kristina]
The third day is the cutting the teeth. So, usually they don’t tell you in advance. They’ll give you a little practice session.

So, luckily, we were lucky to give you a practice. So, our OSS, so, our phantom head? The teeth on the heads, yep. So, it’s just like that. You have to cut. Either a premolar or molar, and it’s usually a class two cavity design. So you’re in the box slot. Either that or they’ll want a crown prep or they’ll want both, two to three procedures they’ll want you to carry out.

Okay. Some will give you a, a rough measurement indication. So let’s say, you know, two mill depth for the crowns, let’s say MCC prep or a gold crown, that they will give you the measurements, but some won’t. So you need to go by. That what that school follows, what traditional ways or some they prefer the less sort of more conservative routes. So, yeah, it is-

[Jaz]
A bit of a guesswork involved there, I suppose. Fine. Interesting. And so once you’ve done your sort of interviews, my quick maths tells me that if there’s a hundred people there and they only take on twenty, only one in five people will get accepted.

[Kristina]
It is quite tough. Yeah, it is quite tough.

[Jaz]
So well done once again, honestly, that’s really, really cool. Tell us about scholarships and fees.

[Kristina]
Yeah, so, I’m not too sure about scholarships. I think you can apply. So luckily, another lucky thing is that if you are a resident or you’ve got some links there, you can apply for government loans. So they’re interest free loans until you finish.

So we’re quite lucky in that regard. Otherwise it’s private loans. On average, it’s about, I’d say a year, but the to adjust tuition fee is about at least 80, 000 dollars, US dollars. So that’s not taking into account other things, your accommodation.

[Jaz]
Accommodation and stuff like that.

[Kristina]
Yeah. Tuition is obviously the main thing and that’s about at least 80, 000.

[Jaz]
So you’re looking at 80, 000 per year?

[Kristina]
Yeah, and a lot of programs are actually two and a half years, so obviously that can build up a bit more as well.

[Jaz]
And on top of that, you need to budget for accommodation and then also like maybe, I don’t know, facebow, books, that sort of stuff?

[Kristina]
Yeah, exactly. Yep. Loops, they are very keen. Which is what you want, I think, if you want to be a good practitioner and a lot of us do, I think it’s nice to have that mindset already, that they’re very they’ll apparently, I have a friend who’s doing periodontics in California and he said, every night you have to read these articles that’s just the basic stuff. Yeah. They’re just a bunch of things that you have to get through and they are very, very-

[Jaz]
Hardcore, hardcore.

[Kristina]
Yeah, hardcore, exactly.

[Jaz]
Brilliant. And once you, fingers crossed, once you graduate from BU like ORE, you can, if you want to work in the NHS, you have to get equivalents, whatever. I mean, roughly describe once you come out of dental school, I mean, do you have, is there another requirement you have to meet after that?

[Kristina]
Yes, unfortunately. Hopefully the last one. Yeah, it’s just the licensing is again, it depends which state. So each state does have a specific regulation, but a lot of them, they do overlap.

So there’s a certain license. If you get that, you can work in quite a few states. But yeah, you have to check with each license. And again, I can give you these links.

[Jaz]
Sure. So, it’s called licensing.

[Kristina]
Licensing exam. Yes. Licensing exam. Yeah. Okay. And they were quite simple. Literally I think an hour exam. And it’s just like your finals, isn’t it? So it’s just questions.

[Jaz]
And then again, do you have to do a licensing exam for each state or one license might cover some states, like I said.

[Kristina]
Yeah, there is a one license that covers quite a few states, but if each specific one will follow different ones so that, it really depends. So I can’t say for sure, but let’s say there’s about five licensing exams. Right? So, if you do obviously all of them, then you’re good to work anywhere, but if you know where you’re going.

[Jaz]
Yeah, you’d have a rough idea of where you want.

[Kristina]
You would, yeah, yeah. And usually you can get away with just that licensing exam. Yeah, and I’ve heard that they’re quite easy. They might, some might want you to do a quick little practical, so even bring a live patient. But that’s quite rare, I think. Okay. Yeah.

[Jaz]
So then finally, you can practice as a dentist in the U. S.

[Kristina]
I know, I know. It sounds like a lot, but like if you’re dedicated and you’re willing to really put the work in and the time, it’s the time it’s doable.

For me, I thought, Oh, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. I was very negative at the beginning because I think it is daunting. Like you said, you see all these things you have to do and it’s not a quick thing. It’s not, you know, you can’t just take this exam.

[Jaz]
You have to do it wholeheartedly. Don’t you?

[Kristina]
Exactly. So but it’s definitely doable. So I want to really encourage people, who are thinking about it to go for it. And also another encouragement is they do like that you’re from UK. So a few interviews, so I applied to about 10 schools. I got interviews from at least four.

The others are, they’re still the deadline hasn’t closed yet. So and I went to about, I think I went to three interviews. Yeah. And a lot of them were really, amazed to see you because they’re like, Oh, you know, what brings you over there, over here. Cause they, they love England. And they, so they love the accent. They can hear it. You know, where are you from? And then, and then they’re lovely.

[Jaz]
Very good. And when you went to these interviews, just out of curiosity of the hundred or so people that are being interviewed can you, like, is it like 50 percent from India or like, you know?

[Kristina]
Yes. So Indians are literally, I’d say 90%.

[Jaz]
Wow.

[Kristina]
It’s quite funny actually. Yeah. But yeah. And, and actually for them it’s a little harder. So I believe that they want a higher GPA. They call it GPA.

[Jaz]
Grade point average, isn’t it?

[Kristina]
Yes. Yes. They want a higher GPA for them. They want higher top up for them because it’s competition. They like to have ethnic diversity in a lot of these schools. So they can’t take just all Indian people. So that’s why it’s a little tougher for them, actually. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Interesting. So those listening who are from the UK got a BDS, you might stand a good chance.

[Kristina]
Yeah. Cause on the application, on the online application, it’s sort of like the UK portal. They ask if you, you know, got what are the qualifications, if you’ve had masters and a lot of the students do. So sometimes you’re getting, you know, periodontics and, you know, specialists apply as well. For me, I felt a bit like, oh gosh, I’m not thinking back to them, but. They treat you as the same and some schools will value them.

So, so I know California schools are really tough. So, California, New York, all these, you know big cities that they want you to have an extra specialty or things like that, but that I shouldn’t let you down, you need to go for and apply if you do want some might want, you know, like the last year or achievements you’ve got. So, all these things, all these extracurricular things, it is definitely worth adding to your CV so you can add all these things. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay. Well, one question I’ve just thought of based on what you’ve said, that is imagine you’re an orthodontist in the UK and you go to the States. Would you have to do everything that you’ve been described and then specialize in orthodontics in the US or?

[Kristina]
I think so. Yeah from what I’ve understood. Yes. Sometimes I have had a few things, but obviously I wouldn’t want to give a total answer. But sometimes you can just do the specialty program. So usually it’s about three years, isn’t it? So let’s say you go to do the ortho there that yeah you could do your part one and part two exam and then if you work in that state for at least five years. I’d Believe you can qualify, do a general dentist, but usually yeah, you, you can either do one or the other.

You have, otherwise you have to do this BDS if you wanna practice as a general dentist and a specialist. Does that make sense?

[Jaz]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s interesting.

[Kristina]
So yeah, you can’t dibble, dabble. You need to. Do so they are quite tough on that actually. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Cool. And one more question I had is, do you know anything about general dentistry in the USA in the sense that, in the UK, most dentists work for the national health system and you’ve got UDAs and stuff.

From speaking to my American colleagues, they’ve got a lot of insurance based practices there. So a lot of what they do, is similar sort of restrictions that they have. It’s just a different name for it. Can you just, do you know anything about that?

[Kristina]
So like Medicaid things like that, which is their NHS service, isn’t it? So yeah, yeah No, no, I do know a little bit again. It’s more the rules and regulations like you said here because you know, we are so heavily NHS based and it is completely different there. It is heavily private. So they have insurance, but the government also-

[Jaz]
Has a fee per item, but there’s insurance basically, right?

[Kristina]
Yes, yes, insurance basically, exactly. But they do also, there are practices that do, you know, low-income support families, things like that, where the government pays for part of it, quite a big chunk of it. But I know that the pay there is a lot better than the NHS here, let’s say, yeah.

[Jaz]
Okay, very good. Well, that’s another potential-

[Kristina]
Yes, topic.

[Jaz]
A plus point on its own. Do you have any words of advice, tips, anything else you want to, anything you think will help any listeners out there who are considering the move. Tell me about the curriculum.

[Kristina]
My curriculum, actually, I’m really lucky. We do a lot of digital dentistry, so a lot of CEREC, so we’ll be doing CEREC straight away instead of the traditional crown, things like that.

[Jaz]
So you start Cerex from the beginning?

[Kristina]
Curriculum, yeah. Undergrad and even implant. I’ll be able to restore an implant. Restore is basic, but even in place. So, that’s quite interesting, isn’t it?

[Jaz]
So in your program you get to place implants?

[Kristina]
Yes, yes. And in most programs, you’ll be able to definitely restore implants at least. So, yeah.

[Jaz]
Well, Kristina, I think I’m really excited for the opportunity that you have. Even once upon a time, I was looking at MSC programs and perioplastic programs in the USA and life got in the way and I’m now sort of settled in London, but, I’m really excited for the opportunity that you have.

You’re going to be taught by world class tutors in an amazing establishment. So go for it, really kill it out there. I hope you get all the success that you deserve. And thank you so much for helping.

[Kristina]
No, thank you for reaching out to me. Honestly, it’s been a great pleasure and I hope I’ve explained a few things. But there was a lot of detail I could go into, but.

[Jaz]
Of course, but yeah, as a sort of giving a bit of a guide, a bit of a flavor of what to expect. ’cause some people have literally no idea. Absolutely. This is gonna really help a lot of people. So thank you so much.

[Kristina]
Wonderful. Thank you.

Jaz’s Outro:
So there we have it. Thank you so much, Christina, for joining us today. I hope that’s been useful for all those listening today. As always, the show notes will be on the website, www.jazz.dental. So if you log on there, click on the episode, you’ll see you’ll be able to download a PDF of all the sort of useful resources that Kristina has prepared for you.

So I’ll catch you on episode three, probably in a few weeks time. Thank you so much for listening.