From Refugee to Protruserati – My Story with Soft Bites – IC028

Jaz’s Introduction:
It’s gonna complement the web app on protrusive.app really well. And if you are Protruserati through and through, you will love the additional content on there. So, keep a close eye out in the next couple of weeks for the massive launch of the Protrusive app on iOS and Android. The other big news I want to share with you before we joined the main episode today is that Mahmoud Ibrahim and I are launching an occlusion course called OBAB. Now, OBAB stands for Occlusion Basics And Beyond. Mahmoud, once joke with me, they come for the OBAB but stay for the kebab, so we don’t know where which direction is gonna go in terms of food in the future. But this is predominantly an online course actually.

So, it’s called Occlusion Basics And Beyond. And we think we’ll be ready in a few months now, we’re really trying super hard. But in our busy lives, it is a tough thing to do to actually plan and create the content recorded, get it edited. We’ve got beta testers lined up already. So, we’re really excited to get it out them to make sure that we get the correct feedback to enhance it as much as we can. Because ultimately, our goal is to help you design and execute restorations from single tooth to anterior aesthetic cases. And then later actually, in module five, we also cover full mouth concepts that will help you feel confident to deliver all this type of dentistry to patients and not worrying that things will break or chip, because we will teach you to apply keyword APPLY in capital letters.

Because the principals, I’m going to show you in the videos and cases, if you can apply them in practice, that’s where you’re going to get success. So, if you sign up to our monthly occlusion tip, you can get flavour of the kind of content we have planned and we’re putting together to make it extremely tangible. So, head on over to occlusion.wtf so www.occlusion.wtf, sign up if you haven’t already. And if you’re a newcomer to this, if you sign up today, for example, if you haven’t signed up already, then what I’ll do is that when I send an email, I’ll make sure the previous videos I’ve sent will also be sent to you. So, for example, the first one was how to adjust the occlusion on resin-bonded bridge. And the second one coming in a few days is how to make a canine riser direct freehand.

So, a full video and commentary of how to do that. This main episode today actually is one where I appeared on the soft bites podcast from Manuela and Andre, both have been guests on my podcast in the past. And essentially it’s my story of coming to the UK when I was six years old from Afghanistan as a refugee. The themes we cover are overcoming adversity, why dentistry is no longer a nine to five job in my opinion, and how you can make your children resilient. So, we kind of discuss these philosophical things but also key influences and books that changed my perspective in life. Plenty of references back to clinical dentistry and the busy lives we lead. So, I’m hoping it’s going to be something a little bit different for you guys. And I hope that you find some inspiration from this even if it gets you to pick up a new perspective or a new book that you hadn’t heard of or read before.

Main Episode
So, hope you enjoy Manuela and Andre’s podcast and I hope to catch you in the next one very soon.

[Manuela]
Hello, guys. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Soft Bites Podcast today we have a very, very special guests. We are very excited about this one. And yeah, welcome Jaz! Welcome to our podcast.

[Jaz]
Thank you so much for having me on Soft Bites. It’s a real pleasure to be- I would say my two favorite Portuguese people in whole wide world, but I will upset hundreds of Portuguese friends that I’ve made over the years a lot of them dentists so I will say you guys just I have yet to meet a Portuguese person that I just didn’t gel so well with, you guys are amazing.

[Jorge]
Thank you so much as I was talking to Manuela, how excited we are to have you here. I think you are, I’ve dealt with many Dentists in Guys connected to education, I had to say you are one of the most authentic persons in the field. So, I’m really excited to have you here and have this chat with you. So, thank you so much for spending this time with us.

[Jaz]
Thank you for having me.

[Manuela]
Okay, so I’ll start. We want to know a little bit more about you Jaz, about your story. So, tell us about if you feel comfortable to share your story on being a refugee that I don’t think most people know about that.

[Jaz]
Correct. They don’t and I kind of kept it like a little bit of a secret on my podcast that I never share. Because I didn’t feel like you know, I don’t want to distract from the talking about sub gingival dentistry, retraction cords, crown preps, then suddenly, it’s all about this. So, I guess thank you for providing a platform for this, you know, you guys are mixing the dental and the human together, which is a beautiful thing. And so let’s talk about that, right? So, I came to the UK in 1996 as a refugee. I was born in Afghanistan in a place called Jalalabad, and from speaking to my parents, and my grandparents, everyone, Sikhs, which is what religion I am, live and Han Hindus lived very peacefully in a predominantly Islamic nation, Afghanistan.

And since, you know, over 100 years, Sikhs and Hindus live there, and in peacefully with the locals and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, when the Taliban troubles up rose, it caused a lot of issues. Lots of Sikhs fled for the safety of their lives. Also Hindus fled. And over the last few years, there’s been lots of violence and war and the Sikh temples being destroyed and all that kind of stuff.

So even now, unfortunately, the amount of Sikh people now living in Afghanistan is probably less than 100. Now, which is a shame because we thousands so that community has now gone to in Belgium, gone to Germany, it’s gone to the UK, it’s gone to India, it’s gone east that way. So, it’s gone all over the world. So, it’s like Afghani seek just for a very well connected very close knit community, all over the world. And in West London, where I grew up, huge community of Afghani Sikhs, and I’m just in everyday I pinch myself, I’m so lucky, I’m so lucky that I managed to somehow escape all those monstrosities, and receive a British education. And it’s just down to luck. It’s just purely down to luck. And when I see all these refugees now and what happened in Syria some time ago. And then the new Afghani refugees coming in, everything comes in circled in the Taliban again. And then recently Reading where I live now, these Afghani refugees coming, I’m like, ‘Wow, man!’ all they just need an opportunity and education.

[Jorge]
Jaz, thank you so much for allowing yourself to share this story with us. I remember that I talked to you, when you were in Portugal. And you just said that, to me, I was really surprised. I had no idea which may view for me to respect you even more. And not only about the work that you do, but especially all these positive character that you have. And when you were talking, I was just thinking about well, you say that you were lucky, right? But do you think that this positive personal that you have in this, that you look like a guy that constantly looks to the bright side of life. Right?

You’re not that much focusing on adversity, and you are always looking for solutions, at least that’s that’s the feeling that I have. Do you think I’m just going to leave a little bit off the script that you have here. Do you think this is something that you have developed intentionally? Or do you think this is something that was born with you? I mean, do you have to work towards that? I mean, DB adversity made you this way, or you think that someone that is genetics, or that’s something that was already inside you? Have you think about that? How do you see that?

[Jaz]
Yes, that’s a really good question. The answer is, I don’t really know. But I can guess guess as to how it is. And Steve Jobs famously said that, ‘You can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect the dots looking back.’ And I’m a huge fan of that. And so when I look at my background, and the biggest, fortunate, I mean, my parents, you know, they took a huge risk to do what they did. My mom was pregnant when we came to the UK and stuff. So thanks to my parents for making it through UK and making it live and all that kind of stuff and in the community and stuff.

So you know, I think wow, luck was a huge part in that. And then what really changed me and my path was the education I mentioned, again, the education I received just when I was six years old, and being able to learn English and I took a liking it was the only thing that I was good at, for the first time in life. The only thing I can actually do so, I just went and went ourselves, poured myself into learning and education. And I gained a lot of self confidence from being at the top of my class at a very young age, because that was the only thing that I could call my own, I didn’t really have much growing up but to have these sort of getting a good mark on my homework, for me was like the highest praise at the time.

So, I guess when I look back, that was good. And then going forward, when I think about the books that I’ve read, there’s a book called ‘Quiet’ and looks at the brains of introverts. And when you cut the brains of an introvert, they have a huge amygdala, you’re smiling Manuela and maybe you read this book?

[Jorge]
I haven’t.

[Jaz]
You haven’t? Have you read it Manuela?

[Manuela]
No, no, no. I’m smiling because I’m writing it down because I think it’s important. I would like to read it. And because you were talking about the amygdala, go on, go on.

[Jaz]
Yeah, I know you’re very much into this field. And so when you dissect an introvert, you will find a large amygdala compared to someone else. So, what that book taught me was that we all, in our development from a young age, yes, there’s a huge genetic component. Like I look at my son’s personality at age three now. And they say that your personality at age three will closely mirror your personality at age 18. And it’s because you have all these channels and pathways. But if you exercise, certain channels, and certain pathways that become stronger and stronger, so I don’t know where it was, in my time. I was introverted in the past. I was quiet. I had bullying, I had adversities in my past. I was the only brown person, the only guy with a turban and stuff, you know, growing up in this huge school of mostly Caucasian children. So, I went through all that.

So, when I look back, because okay, what was it that made me so positively focus? I think it’s just the books that I read into the slowly being exposed to these kind of schools of thoughts and whatnot. And it kind of just happened, I guess. But I do believe that, when it comes to nature versus nurture, I think nature plays a huge role. And then what you feed it, how you nourish it, with the nature and just fell into place. And I do want to say that when I had braces, and it sounds really, I went on dental podcasts and sounds really cheesy.

But if you ask me why I became a dentist, I will say the same thing. I had braces, and it completely changed me as a person. And I think that was a huge part in my journey. I used to be really embarrassed of my teeth and whatnot. And I really can pinpoint age 13, 14, where I really started to smile more and become more confident. And I think that for me, part of my journey was huge.

[Jorge]
Jaz, so I guess you will say just before next question, I think that there’s a big part of intentionally changing yourself, because I think this is really important for people listening to us, because I am 44. And in Portugal, when I was like in my teams, there was not this culture of something very simple as you are able to change yourself, this notion that you are able to change yourself. And I had to discover that I had to say that I had discovered that very late.

So, I think this is a question for you, don’t you think that in traditional education, they are lacking this part in terms of the curriculum. Because you said you that you read the books, right? So on your own, you read some books, or that’s what emotional development or personal development but I would submit out of this, the notion that you can change yourself, not only your body, but also your emotions and your personality to achieve whatever you think is your goal in life. So I think that this notion that I don’t know that everybody has that in their teens, which is you are able to do some positive changes yourself. And don’t you think this lacks in the traditional curriculum? I don’t know how it is in the UK now, but at least in Portugal, this is likely.

[Jaz]
I agree, I think, welcome this change and how you’re able to change your thinking and your mindset. And we are amenable to that, and we can change the way we think and that manifests in a physical change, emotional change, and that they’re all connected. But I was saying to Manuela, that I, for some reason, I must have read something that I started to seek these scenarios, these positions where I would be uncomfortable, I would purposely seek these out where it would make me feel really, really sick to the core that okay, I’m going to be you know, I don’t want to do this, I don’t want to stand up from 30 people and say this, I don’t want to put myself out there. And I would seek those opportunities out, just like a maniac. And I think that really fast track my growth and in terms of my emotional intelligence, because I was able to flourish in these very uncomfortable scenarios.

[Manuela]
That’s so interesting. Let me just say something because I completely identified with what you were saying because I remember being in my more than 20 years ago and in university and feeling that nauseous and completely out of my comfort zone when I had exams and things like that and at the time because I didn’t know how to deal with it. At the time, I shut myself down you know, it was very difficult for me. And fast forward, 20 years after, I realized that those are the situations that made me grow and I could not see that at that time. I was not ready. No one told me. I remember going into the toilet you know calling my mother and crying and say, ‘I cannot do this and I cannot do this.’ And my mother, ‘Okay. Okay, okay.’ But she also didn’t know how to help you. That’s not the way that we grew up. That’s not the way that we were educated, no one told us about these things. And nowadays, just like you said, I put myself out there. When I have a situation is like, ‘Okay, I’m going to write this email, I’m going to do this proposition I’m going.’ And then I have this, ‘Oh my god, but I’m not going to be able to do this or to talk on this.’ Yes, yes, you are, just you will learn it. Second time, it will be easier.

So, for me, it was something that it needed learning. But nowadays, it’s also like that and also what Andres said, I think that in our generation, it was more about self control. So, we had this notion that we could not change ourselves, but we’re able somehow to control certain parts of ourselves. Nowadays, with all these notions of emotional intelligence, just like you said Jaz, we learned that it’s all about self management. We can manage ourselves, we can learn, we can grow. And even though our neural connections through neuroplasticity, everything changes, everything changes with-

[Jaz]
That’s the keyword right there, neuroplasticity, that’s probably the word of the century.

[Manuela]
Yeah. But, we have to do the work. And I think this is in the dentistry is very important. Because sometimes, dentists complain about their everyday dentistry life. But they have to realize that, to realize that they have to be able to do the work in order to bring some change into their into their days. So, that’s really important.

[Jaz]
They need to sweat, everyone needs to sweat, whether it’s emotionally or physically, that is what needs to happen. And I saw this amazing photo quote, the other day, guys on Andre and Manuel. So, it’s really amazing quote, he said, ‘Don’t be afraid to suck at something new.’

[Manuela]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
And I put a caption, I share mine. So, I put a caption and it said, ‘This is how I feel every time I learn a new technique on a course.’

[Manuela]
Okay, sorry to interrupt and continue.

[Jorge]
So, Jaz, looking back at what we were talking about, and the importance of going through difficult moments. Can you tell us about some of those moments in your life? And how was that helpful in any way?

[Jaz]
I’m gonna share something with you guys that I’ve never shared publicly before. And you know what? Fine. So, you guys are getting a lot of different stories here. I kept this one a secret but no longer. Growing up, didn’t have much money. And around about age 14, in our teenage years, all your friends got nice things, and I couldn’t afford it at the time. And my parents bless them. I didn’t feel like I could ask them for money and stuff. So, I felt like I need to take matters into my own hands. So, I found this dude online. He’s from Hong Kong, or China, I forgot where it was from. And then he was like, and I was on eBay and stuff.

And like, there was this like idea to do kind of like drop shipping. So basically, I fulfill an order, and someone else will post it. So as a 14 year old, I was using my mom’s, I made my mom and eBay account, I registered her credit card. But I was doing everything right. So I thought, ‘Okay, let’s start some sort of business.’ And so what it was, was that I was advertising and selling Tiffany and Co jewelry. Okay, I hope I don’t get if anyone from Tiffany is listening. I had no idea that was counterfeit at the time. So I’m, I’m gonna come to that in a moment. Okay. So I was selling this, Tiffany and Co jewelry online. And I was like, learning about copy and marketing, which I guess, you know, fast forward to 15, 20 years. And that does come in handy-

[Manuela]
It’s useful.

[Jaz]
With the course and education stuff. So you know, you look back. Exactly, it came in handy back then. But I was learning about, okay, how can I present this product and stuff. So, there’s people in the UK would buy this Tiffany jewelry. And I didn’t know what Tiffany was. I don’t know how much Tiffany was. The guy just said recommended retail like $60 or whatever. And I was selling it. Obviously, Tiffany costs a lot more than that. I didn’t know it was fake, right? So, I was fulfilling this order. This dude from China was with shipping it and I would keep like 20%. So for me at the time, making 10 or 15 pounds a day. I thought I was like, wow, I was it. At that age, and it was going really well and I was enjoying it. And then suddenly all these orders were being fulfilled, but the shipping wasn’t happening. So, I liable for my mom was like liable, technically legally to 100% and the we had some people complain that was fake. I was like, ‘What?! This thing is fake jewelry exists?’ So, as a 14 year old, 15 year old at a time suddenly, the guy who you’d liaise with every day of MSN. You remember MSN? I was lazing on on MSN every day, and he wasn’t responding anymore. And suddenly, I had like 800 pounds worth of orders that weren’t fulfilled and was all on me as a 15 year old, and my parents had no idea I was doing this for like last two months. And so this was crippling. Like, I laugh about it now.

But at the time, I was like, I was feeling sick. I was stressed. I broke my leg playing football as well. It was a bizarre time so I was there on the crutches, and emotionally, mentally, all I could think was like, ‘Oh my God, how I’m gonna find 800 pounds to pay these people?’ Because, you know, technically what I’m doing is wrong here. At the time, I almost, almost spoke up to my parents like every day I was waiting on MSN waiting, ‘When’s going gonna come online? When’s this guy gonna come online?’ Anyway, long story short, he came online. Turns out he was hospitalized and whatnot. He sorted it out. But it was most the difficult 50 days of my life, daily email exchanges with these unhappy customers saying, ‘Look, I’m really sorry. I’m gonna figure out what happened.’ Whatever, whatever. Real stress that was extremely stressful. And of course exams, GCSEs, everything that was all happening. It all got resolved. And I promise I never wanted to touch this kind of stuff again. Never wanted to do business with someone I didn’t look in the eyes and I didn’t know. So, that was my very dark moment in my life. But yeah. It taught me a lot.

[Jorge]
So, you have spent the money that you have won could you get it back?

[Jaz]
Yes of course. I like that I’ve won. Because it was like gambling it away. Yeah, of course, man. I bought like a guitar for 40 pounds. I was buying clothes I could finally afford for like nice clothes. Like I was going out. I was going to movies was I couldn’t do as much for so yeah, I was really enjoying my teenage life finally had money. So yeah, it was a really strapped but I look back and like, wow, I learned so much like I never wished that upon any teenager, especially with someone who’s like looking for money at time. But yeah, it was it was an interesting period of my life.

[Manuela]
And you learn a lot.

[Jaz]
I learned how to manage upset customers. I learned about the importance of who you do business with and what kind of businesses are a high risk and low risk and that kind of stuff. So yeah, it taught me a lot.

[Manuela]
Jaz, let’s talk about your podcast, because I think it’s the podcast of dentistry. It’s the reference for-

[Jorge]
It is!

[Manuela]
It really-

[Jaz]
I don’t know if it is but you know, that’s about very sweet coming from you both. Thank you so much. You both been great guests on the show.

[Manuela]
I want to know, how did your podcast started? How did you come up with the idea? I personally feel and because I already read your motivations. And I think they are very novel because you have this mindset of wanting to help and wanting to share knowledge, but I want to hear it from you. How did you come up with the idea of the Protrusive Podcast? And how did you felt that could be useful to the dentistry?

[Jaz]
The idea was really random, actually. And it didn’t envisage to become what it becomes today in terms of, you know, I get so many nice comments and a nice community that we’ve built now and I’m so glad that you two are part of it and been previous guests and whatnot. And just making knowledge accessible. These questions, these little niggly questions that were always, you know, usually you get that information at the bar at 2am. And you ask a prosthodontist for some question and they give you the answer, direct and obey the podcast so that you know you can get that anywhere you’re on the world. But the way it started was, you may or may not know I was in Singapore for 18 months. I was working in dentistry in Singapore. I was a dentist there. I mean, my wife was there. We were enjoying it. We’re traveling, we are working, then my wife got homesick.

And then I came back. And then amongst the UK dentists, this word started to spread the hate as a dentist. He went to Singapore, he lived a good life, he came back and now he can teach you how to move to Singapore and pay little tax and enjoy the sunshine and go on holidays and that kind of stuff. So, my phone number started circulating. So, as I was driving from London to Oxford, like what an hour back. I was speaking to a different dentist every day on the phone answering the same damn questions. ‘How much do you earn? Is there a language barrier? How do I get my license? What’s the indemnity like?’ Etc, etc at the same things. And after about the eighth person I was okay, well, I want to listen to my audio books a gain. I want to speak to someone, answer the same things again, how can I get my message? How can I hit record on a WhatsApp message or something and deliver it to the world? And so the first episode was expat dentists in Singapore.

And so that was the reason. It was actually selfish. I didn’t want, I want to not have to do one on one phone calls anymore. I want to do one too many by putting this message out and then the second episode was, ‘Oh that was fun.’ How about we speak to my colleague who went to America recently? What’s it like to move to America as a UK graduate? Then episode four was at Australia. And then you know how you mentioned Manuela about sharing knowledge and that kind of stuff. I’m a lifelong learner. So, I want to ask the questions that I want to know about at the same time. So I was selfish, I was learning, but at the same time, you know, people are there like a fly on the wall learning as well. And that’s the origin of it.

And now what has become now is a lot more we’re gonna come up with CPD and stuff because the demand is there, people will listen, they spend hours listen, and they want to go to click on and get a CPD certificate. I get all sorts of weird, wonderful requests for speaking and stuff, which is, which is amazing. I again, I pinch myself like, ‘Woah, how does this happen?’ It helped me to, I was able to tear a hole in the wall. And I thought, ‘You know what, I’m here. And I’m here to share. And I’m here to have fun. And let’s do this.’ So yeah, it was a nice little position that-

[Manuela]
Manuel, she was talking. So, sorry.

[Manuela]
No, no, no. I’m just going to say this, because I think one of the reasons of your success is that at least I feel that you are having fun. And you can see that. You are having fun, you’re authentic, you really enjoy what you’re doing, you really feel that what you are doing makes a difference. And it brings content, useful content. And you’ll really enjoy yourself. So, I just wanted to mention this.

[Jaz]
And Manuela you mentioned that we were talking before we hit record button about some struggles and impostor syndrome and thinking, ‘Ah, is it worth what I’m doing and stuff.’ And a few times in my podcasting journey so far for the last three years, I’ve been like, you know, I’ve got a team now. I’ve got a team we spent hours producing each episode now. We now we’ve moved to a situation, we’re gonna have the notes on the left hand side, over the video on the right, so it’s becoming a real big operation. And it used take five hours to make an episode. Now it takes upwards of 20 man hours to produce an episode.

So it’s getting there, sometimes is it worth it and stuff. But sometimes when I get an email saying that, ‘You know what I was in a dark place in dentistry. And I just feel as though I needed you in my morning drives to get me through the day. And now believe it or not, I actually enjoy it. And now booked onto this course that you recommended, and I’m really enjoying it. And I did my first crown prep I did my first onlay. And if it wasn’t for Episode 59, I wasn’t able to do it.’ And on YouTube, someone oh my god.

So, this dentist one year out of dental school on her last day at her sort of foundation training position, she was able to section elevate from a molar to remove it. And she commented on the YouTube saying, ‘On my last day, I managed to do this because of this episode, I didn’t understand dental school, I learnt it from Episode 88, or whatever it was.’ So it’s feedback like that things ‘Wow, wow, this is working people are learning, people are sharing. And so that’s what keeps me going.

[Jaz]
That is so cool. And I don’t know if you if you met Jaz in person, but it really is this character that he really really wants. And I think this is something that is very rare, that he really wants you to be good around him. You know, there are some people that is just like, they just want to keep the energy from themselves. And Jaz, is one of those guys that really wants you to make you feel good around him. And that’s something that is really rare and special in dentistry. So, regarding that I haven’t read the values and the goals of maybe have it written down somewhere on on the podcast. But we know that you have this sharing and this abundance mindset. I mean, so your success is not at all it means that someone else is losing. Can you tell us about that? And was it something that was- Did it grow with you? Or is it something that you transform yourself into, because you realize that that was the way to be?

[Jaz]
I think when I look back at the different books I read, self development, I’m a huge fan of self development, it must have been the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, which like when you google self development books, that’s like the number one recommended one. So it must have been like, you know, in my teenage years, when I read that, and then it talked about the scarcity mindset and the abundance mindset now hope I’m not confusing books, I’m pretty sure that’s one of the better parts of it. And so having that in learning, okay, what is scarcity mindset? And why identify with that, are there any things that in my life that I look at, and I’ve adopted the scarcity mindset and being open to change and changing the way that you move your perspective?

And to have the abundance mindset so yes, scarcity mindset when you think that if my podcast is doing well, other podcasts are not doing well. Or if this dentist doing well that means that this other dentist is not doing well. That’s absolutely yes, we know that there is all of us to grow and learn and share. And it’s amazing. It’s not like it’s not a net zero game. Everyone has a benefit to be gained and we can all win in this. I think once you adapt that, the positivity just infuses you’re more open to collaborations, you’re more open to share and good things happen when you share.

[Jorge]
But I think it really is important that in dentistry because I don’t know why but dentistry is a very unique profession, probably because of the excessive dentistry almost all over the world now. I don’t think that kind of mindset is something that is really present. So, thank you for that. For trying to, to share that kind of vision because I think that we all, not only a few, that we all need to understand that. We all need to understand that dentistry is ultimately about helping people. And the closer and the less competitive that we are in ourselves. And the more that we want to help ourselves ultimately, will help more people. And so thank you so much for that.

[Jaz]
Thank you, Andres. And I think it’s one to add that, you know, in practice and making bring it back to the real world of practice, you know, let’s say you work in a local neighborhood, and then there’s a competitive dentist down the road. And I think we see this too many times where, you know, you worry that if you’re patient, lose a crown.

[Jorge]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
Then they go to the dentist. And yeah, man, there’s gonna. This is gonna be good. Why do we have this fear? Because, you know, it’s unfortunate. We hear the stories and whatnot, right? And it worries you. So, I think the sooner we dentists look after each other, learn not to throw each other under the bus. Because you know, I’ve done it before, where and I’m sure Andre, you’ve done this, as well, where I see a patient, this is my first year out of dental school.

I see a patient large amalgam on the distal of a second molar, which had an overhang I was like, ‘Look, you know, you just got overhang. It’s not very good, it’s sealed. But you know, let’s, let’s improve it.’ And then you struggle so much doing it, you think, ‘Oh, my God, no wonder this amalgam will be better than all I could do.’ So you never know, the struggle that the dentist had doing it. I think we need to remember that. And always be present with that, you know, we need to promote each other, we need to make sure that we don’t throw each other under the bus. And that pretty much embodies exactly that abundance mentality.

[Jorge]
And have this respect for this for this wonderful profession, isn’t it and having this this respect for something that that can really have such an impact on the patient’s lives?

[Manuela]
Just to close this segment, I would like to, we already talked about that, between to talk a little bit about the importance of access to education, because I think that just like you said, and you gave that wonderful example of someone that has done a clinical procedure based on one of your episodes, and I think that’s a beautiful thing. But I know that this is very important to you to share education. And you also mentioned that while growing up, education and it was something that you had to also feel confident that you use as a confidence factor. You also think that’s why because now that’s the reason why nowadays, you feel that you are this vehicle to share education and to share information with others. Because I mean, Education and Information is power.

[Jaz]
Yes, yes. Knowledge, power and implementation more and more, I’m realizing, as I’m sharing with one that, you know, your knowledge is great, but implementation is where it’s really at. And I guess if I go back really in time, and to link it back to the very first thing of the podcast about my journey when I was six years old, so maybe seven. And it was one year in the country, and I was just learning English. And then we had this big leaderboard at the front of my primary school. So it’s like, you know, grade three or something, right? Take the leader board, everyone’s name on it. And every time you managed to get all the spellings correct, there’s like six or seven words you have to write. Every time you get the spelling, correct all of them, you get a star next to the name, okay, everyone had all the stars, I didn’t have a single star. And that first day, age seven, I got my first star. And I remember at home, being you know, practicing writing the word home, H-O-M-E DOGDOG, practicing, practicing, practicing. And I got my first star, I will never forget that as the moment of my life that changed mantra and try directory, because it taught me a very valuable lesson that hard work always pays off.

That was when I learned that age seven. And then I always think back to that moment when I’m in trouble that you know, that if I didn’t do my practicing at home, and my mom really watching and she was like, ‘You know, didn’t know how to help me my homework, whatever, but I did it myself.’ And so that was a really important part. So, in terms of now, sharing and getting everyone involved, it’s only natural that I got into this space in terms of promoting that. And there was this book, I know talking about lots of books and stuff like so important to read.

[Jorge]
Of course.

[Jaz]
This book was recommended to me. And it was called Strengths Finder 2.0. Strengths Finder. And I encourage everyone to do this. So you do this, It’s like, it’s a book that you buy, and then it’s some like an online quiz that you do. And then by doing this quiz takes like 15-20 minutes. It tells you evidence based something, your five top strengths. And the book argues that we should focus on our strengths, not on our weakness, we focus on our strengths. And my number one strength was very competitive in sports and everything like that. And so maybe it’s because I was competitive that star that I got when I was seven that really fueled me is like, ‘Wow, I make it I got my faster, how do I get all the other star so I can race to the top.’ So, when it comes to that, you know, you have to look at your strengths. And now I’m playing to my strengths. I’m trying to level up myself and learn. But in that journey, I’m sharing to level everyone up at this level everyone else up as well. And there’s so much beauty.

[Manuela]
Can I just?

[Jorge]
Of course. Yeah

[Manuela]
Sorry, sorry. I just want to talk the alignment. Can I ask you Jaz? And what about your communication skills? Where does that come from? Because you are very outspoken in a very authentic way. And you are always smiling is that one runs in your family? Or you have also to put yourself out there? IS that a natural thing? Because you have very good communication skills.

[Jaz]
I appreciate that. I never saw myself as that but more and more from feedback. And so people say that you present yourself well, I don’t know how that stems from. I do have this one theory is that at school, I did enjoy drama, I enjoyed acting, role playing and that kind of stuff. And that helped me to become more confident as well. And so I I believe that when we’re in practice, when we’re working, it’s showbusiness. I believe that we have to put on a show. And even if it’s a bad day, you have to, right? You have to. So, once you start to internalize that and want to do things like power posing upright in your body posture, and that changes your internal sort of a physiology and emotions and it all runs together. So, your body represents your mind, and there’s a huge connection. So, those things I think I’ve absorbed and adapted over the years. And now that’s how I like to live. Because even if I’ve had a bad day, like, you know, it’s very British thing to do when you walk. And you’re right. And everyone says, ‘You’re right, right?’ No one ever says actually, no, I’m not. Okay. Now, I’m not saying that it’s firstly, it’s okay to be not okay. It’s, firstly, I want to say that.

[Jorge]
Of course. Yeah.

[Jaz]
But at the at the end of the day, you shouldn’t be dwelling and focusing on the negativity, when you could be trying to change your physiology, change your reality. And I think maybe that’s how I I’ve come to be this smiley, positive person, because I truly believe that if I project that to the universe, that will get reflected back at me.

[Jorge]
Yeah, that’s very interesting what you’re saying, because both me and Manuela, we are firm believers of that. And that just reminded me of a book that I read from a Portuguese guy that’s working in the States, Antonio Damasio, the most important book that he wrote was Descartes’ Error, and basically talks about neurology and neurophysiology and one of the last books he was very clear about one thing is that we usually believe that you need to have good internal mindset conditions, so that you can improve your external world. But now we know it’s actually the opposite.

You have to change your external world, inclusively, your body, like you’re saying, you had to change your physiology in order to feel good. So for example, if you like, ‘Well, I’m just going to work out, I’m just going to do this when I feel good.’ No, you have to start doing this. So, that then you start to feel good. So you have to, there’s something that you need to intentionally change on your external world, which might be your own body, so that you can start to feel okay, so that’s very, very interesting. So you get-

[Jaz]
And Andre body languages.

[Jorge]
Yes. Exactly.

[Jaz]
I mean it’s the same thing, I read something when I was 17 this power of body language, and that’s always imprinted in my mind. I always think, even like facial expressions, when you’re speaking to your patients, the tone of voice, it’s a bit like saying to a patient, ‘Well, we can do some crown lengthening, or we can do some Crown Lengthening.’ GCI, obviously won’t use that term. But it’s a huge difference, of course, how you project yourself that universe.

[Jorge]
Of course. But it’s really this notion that you really have to work. You have to be intentionally on how you want to feel it’s not you cannot wait to feel good to do something, you have to do something to feel good. Even the smile. If you smile, you’ll feel better, right? It’s not only from mind to the body, it’s just mainly especially from the body or the outside world to the to the mind.

[Jaz]
And I also think what we’re worrying and happiness is a choice. I do believe that. I know there’s lots of dark things that if you’re actually clinically depressed, that’s a .

[Jorge]
That’s important to say, yeah.

[Jaz]
Yeah, and it’s important to seek help for that. But when you know, in less serious things, when my wife tells me, she is stressed, I correct it. I say no, I say, ‘At this moment in time, you are choosing stress at this moment in time, you’re choosing to feel stress.’ And I live by that mentality. Yes, I get stressed. And I sometimes I choose to feel stress and I choose. And I know that okay, you know what, for the next 20 minutes, I’m going to be miserable. And I’m gonna do it in a corner alone. I want to get on my system. And I do that. But I’m being mindful about how I project myself to the universe.

[Jorge]
Yeah, we all want sometimes to feel miserable for a few moments, because it just, you want to spoil yourself.

[Jaz]
Yes.

[Jorge]
No, but I think it’s really important that, for me, this is something really personal because I think that I found this really late. I mean, we Portuguese, we have this, I don’t know if you know, we have Falho the kind of Portuguese music which is very sad. Which is basically-

[Manuela]
Dwelling on the negativity.

[Jorge]
And it’s like, you are the victim of the universe. Therefore, there’s nothing else that you can do.

[Manuela]
Yeah, like your life is very sad.

[Jaz]
When I did the city tour, when I did the tour in Porto, she was talking at the end of the tour, talking about this about, you know, there’s nothing really barely universe and all these things happens to you.

[Jorge]
Exactly

[Manuela]
Then even though exactly life sad is like this feeling of something that it’s not here. So, we are always anxious or looking for something that we don’t have. So, that’s a sad way of living.

[Jorge]
And fado is basically using that feeling and making it exponentially and feeling as sad as possible. Right? That’s something really Portuguese. And that is something that personally changed my life, which which was understanding that you have in every second of your life, you always have the ability of trying to do something to help yourself. I mean, if you can’t run, you just walk, if you can’t walk, you just crawl, but just keep trying to help yourself in the best way that you can. Sometimes it works better, sometimes it’s worse. It’s not so well.

But I think that having this trying to overcome this victim mentality is really, really important. You are one of the biggest examples of that. And you were talking about for the vertical preparation course. So, it was really a pleasure for me to have met you there. And I have to say that I’ve said this before that you really have this very positive energy around you. And I think that one of the things is that you can clearly see that your main goal is that people around you feel good. And this is something that really, really struck me. So, how was your time in Porto and when’s the next time that we’re going to do it? I really look forward for that.

[Jaz]
I’m thinking already. Maybe we’re talking maybe next year or something like that, because I get messages all the time saying, ‘Jaz, I want to learn to verti prep but I want to learn only from you.’ I’m like, ‘No, you don’t learn from me run from Andre.’ So let me take you to Porto. And like, you know, it was such a great time. And I think that the need for it was there. And the timing was there after COVID. We want those. It’s like a retreat, right? It was such a nice retreat.

[Jaz]
We had we had such a great time.

[Jaz]
Which Limoncello was it? Which what was it the drink that we had?

[Jorge]
Sangria? Yeah, we this is the place where I usually go out to have dinner and to party. It’s called shinko fish, which we have dinner, which we ate on the day before. And we had also the limoncello sangria.

[Jaz]
Limoncello sangria, right?

[Jorge]
Yes, exactly.

[Jaz]
Out of this world.

[Jorge]
That’s a classic.

[Jaz]
And then your dad’s restaurant and everything. It was amazing. What you told me the restaurant I’ve been in. I don’t know if you’ve listened to a podcast. But on two or three episodes already. I’ve echoed this. Once again, I’ve coached you every time. I said that, ‘You know, Andre was sat next to me. And he said something so beautiful. So cliche in a way, but we need to hear it right, is that life is not about the destination life is not even about the journey.’ You said this?

[Jorge]
Yes.

[Jaz]
Life is about the company. And honestly, I need to hear that. It’s a beautiful reminder, life is about the company.

[Jorge]
Yeah. But that was something that even personally for me, because it really only strike me over the last, I would say the last one or two years. And we do this, we do this course me and Manuela, and it’s a mix of the mindful and emotional part with my practical and very, very practical tips on management and stuff like that. And we were talking and I was talking with one of the I was talking. Well, this is not about the destination. It’s about the journey. So yes, so I think these are very three important steps in life.

So first of all, you want to have the goal you want to prove that you are rather than someone else. So then you have to, well, this is not about the goal because when you reach the goal, you realize that you’re not happy, so you have to enjoy the moment. So, then it’s about the destination. But I also think that it comes a point in your life, it’s not even about a goal or it’s also about to goal, it’s also about the destination but the company? People that are next to you or the people that you actually can influence that’s actually what makes everything special because otherwise it’s just okay yes, I have a goal. Yes, I have fun during the goal. But-

[Jaz]
That is a basic human need, isn’t it? It’s a tribal thing. Right? The goal.

[Jorge]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
And the journey that they’re not tribal. That is the people is the company that is the tribal nature, isn’t it?

[Jorge]
Yeah, and it was such a wonderful time to have to have you there. And I really hope that we can do this next time, next year.

[Jaz]
A hundred percent. Well, I’m thinking already, maybe next year or something, I’m getting messages all the time saying, ‘When they’re going to happen?’ I’m looking at my diary like, ‘Oh, not this year.’ But next year for sure. It’d be great to take a group to Porto again, what a beautiful place. And I told you, April was a tiny bit. So, maybe May a little bit warmer, the beach is beautiful. I had Francesinha, right? We have Pasta Lenato now on a monthly basis. My son loves it. So many things I learned about Portuguese culture was absolutely amazing.

[Jorge]
That is so cool. That is so cool.

[Manuela]
Jaz, I want to ask you, because I started listening, I still didn’t reach the end, one of your latest episodes on the podcast about parenthood and dentistry where you had Dr. Hardeep as your guest. And you guys talked about unique challenges that dentists face as parents. You are a father. Also, I would like to hear your opinion on, because for dentists I think finding balance between the professional and personal life it’s a big thingand some colleagues really struggle with that. So I would like to, to hear how you do it because you have this professional, very busy professional life with the oldest sides of it. You’re not just a clinic dentist working in chair, you have all this other things going on. But you are also a father, a husband, you have a personal life, you were just telling us that you are having a very busy summer family wise and wedding wise, how do you do it? Any secrets to have that balance?

[Jaz]
I think I can share a few things. I mean, firstly, when I was in final year of dentistry at dental school in Sheffield, I opened up the magazine and it was all these people in the year above who had just qualified and there was interviews with them. And one of the images was of a lady dentist who just qualified and it was a speech bubble. Next to her, it says, ‘I like that I’m going to profession that I can work nine to five and I don’t have to take my work home with me and that was me.’ And my final year in dentistry that brainwash me. I was like ‘Oh, that’s interesting. Okay, cool.’ So I go home, I treat patients, I come home, I don’t have to think about teeth. That’s pretty cool. I thought at the time, the biggest lie ever. Huge lie. Okay. And so you realize that-

[Manuela]
That’s really important because other dentists have struggle with this because they try to live that and that’s impossible. That does not exist. That’s a very important thing to be set. That’s a life. Yeah.

[Jaz]
Wow. I love that. You said that, Manuela. Because you’re right. Maybe I thought that maybe because the world I’m in that maybe I fell into this or I forced this upon me. But I do believe that dentistry as a nine to five job. It doesn’t exist anymore. Right?

[Jorge]
That’s very interesting. We usually talk a lot about this in the podcast. And I think that Dentistry has changed so much. I think that in the last maybe 20 years ago, you will tooth you do like single tooth dentistry. So you come into the tooth, you come three times to treat this tooth, or you come four times to treat four teeth. But now everything is changed. There is no more unit disciplinary dentistry. Everything is multidisciplinary. So, and the consequence of this is that you have homework, lab communication, colleagues communication, treatment planning, to plan presentation, you have so much homework and I think this is really important that there’s the job from nine to five doesn’t exist anymore.

[Jorge]
And so- Continue, Manuela.

[Manuela]
Continue.

[Jaz]
So, that made me think that I was a nine to five job like we said it’s a lie. So how do we do it? You know, we come home, we have our clinchecks, we have a treatment plans. And of course in the first five years I was course after course after course after I was a course junkie. And I needed that. I needed to because dental school didn’t prepare me, it prepares no one, right? It’s a bit like driving you only learn how to drive after you pass the test, not before. So, you need to get those hours behind the wheel and the hours behind the chair. And then with dentistry, you get less dental education. Dental school is getting diluted and diluted and diluted and it’s really unfair because the post graduate education world is having to pick up the slack and it’s costing us money it’s costing us time it’s costing a best part of our childhood. We know we sacrifice our 20s for the dentist who really wants to do good and get into the right practice environment and try and do the kind of cases that they want to do. It robs us of our 20s almost because he just got courses, courses, courses, courses. And your way you’re trying to balance everything. So, it’s a real struggle.

So I think, to answer the question, I came to a point where I said, What do I want for my life? And how do I do life design? So I got a paper. And I decided that I don’t want to commute anymore. I don’t want to commute, I just want to reduce my commute, okay. I decided that if there is out there a shift pattern system, so I can work early in the morning or late in the evening, I would like to have half a day to do all the other things. Otherwise, I can’t do these other things. So, now I work eight till two, or I work two till eight in a practice that’s been doing this system for the last 40 years. So, most practices doing this, it was inflicted by COVID. At least in the UK, I know you guys have a different hours in Portugal, maybe. But in the UK, this practice been doing for 30 years. And I chose to find a property 15 minutes away walk to this practice. That’s how I can now fulfill my duties as a father and not having feel guilty that I’m not doing my work because I cut out the commute time, I’m nearby to work. I sort of picked in to chose these aspects of my life to make it and now I don’t edit the podcast episodes, because I still in five hours now, can I find a team? So, I found freelancers. And now we’ve got a team who’ve now just worked for protrusive. So, that we can work together. Because they are better at editing, quicker editing, they enjoy it more than I do.

So, it’s about realizing whether you own a practice, whether you are an associate, wherever you are, if there’s any aspect of your work that you can give to someone else. And I guess I don’t know if it’s a right place to say here, but even things like gardening, right? I don’t do gardening. I don’t know how to garden, right? And my wife’s like, ‘Oh, the gardening bill was so much. So so much this month.’ I was like listen, it will take me hours to learn how to do it. Okay. It’s better we just pay the gardener and I can work on the business. I can have time with Ishaan. So, anything that you feel as though you can delegate someone else and you earn more during work than you can do in terms of doing that task, then I’m a big fan of delegation.

[Jorge]
Yes, I agree. You were talking about Ishaan? Is it the name of your kid?

[Jaz]
Ishaan is my son. Yes.

[Jorge]
Ishaan?

[Jaz]
Yes.

[Jorge]
Yeah. Even your face it completely changed when you talked about him. Even your expressions. So, it’s going to have a life completely different than yours, isn’t it? The bringup. And one of the things that I know that worries you and I’ve heard this subject mentioned many times, I think there’s this thing that says that, ‘Good times create weak people, weak people create something like that.’ But basically is that the grit and the effort and the adversity that you went through. It’s almost impossible that you try to implement that in the life of someone that you love so much, isn’t it?

[Jaz]
100%

[Jorge]
So, if you love him so much, how will you be able to make him go through things that you know that he needs to be able to be, I won’t say even successful, I would go even further. You need to you know that he needs to go through some things for him to be happy and confident. So, so-

[Jaz]
happiness and headstrong, headstrong and happy and have the grit and the determination. And so he’s beautiful characteristics that we all like.

[Jorge]
So what’s your doubts? And what’s your plan for that? I mean, if you do have a plan for that.

[Jaz]
I don’t have a plan yet. But it’s something I told you in an email like this keeps me up at night. This this is a real big level, big philosophical question. I asked myself that, ‘How would I do it?’ In the book Out Lies, it talks about income and how much income you need to be happy, right? And after like $70,000, any further income does not influence happiness at all. Not in the slightest. And this is evidence base. In fact, it might have the opposite effect.

[Jorge]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
So and then what they’ve talked about is okay, your children being spoiled, and whatnot, and how do you actually raise them up the right way? So you know, I look back at my childhood, I didn’t have my own room, I was sleeping on the floor in the living room for 17 years of my life. At first time I had my own bedroom was I went to uni, I didn’t want to go back home. I had my own room. At uni, this is a huge thing for me, right? So me and my sister. She had room for many years. And then she had the room and I was sleeping in the room on the floor and stuff. So I was like, ‘Okay, well, is it ethical for me to make Ishaan sleep on the floor? So he can learn to be adaptive? And not be so comfortable? How do I do it? I don’t know.’

But something that I’m gonna be working consciously very hard on is that how can I instill the values in him that make him not too comfortable so that he appreciates that everything has been given to him but I’ve had to work hard for it. My parents had to work hard for it and not to lose sight and touch of that. How can I make him humble? How can I instill humility? How can I make sure that ego doesn’t come up? How can I make sure that he has all those attributes that we talked about? But nowadays where everything’s handed to him. And I look at him and you know, my wife buys him these branded shoes like why does the freaking three year old need brand new shoes right? But my wife has those values and handled, ‘Okay, fine.’ But I think, how are we going to instill these important values in this young person? And that? I don’t know, I don’t know the answer. I don’t know the answer. If you guys have any ideas, I’d love to hear them.

[Jaz]
I have no idea.

[Manuela]
I have no idea. But really, the example is very important. And you are giving it to, I think that they, they learn with examples, but that’s all I got, nothing else.

[Jorge]
If I think about like, for 30 seconds, and I have to, I can talk about my own experience, I live in the room with my parents up until I was four, right. And then my father opened his restaurant. And my life started to be more comfortable around 10, 15, 10, 14. So, I think that I do have memories when I slept in the room with my parents. And I completely agree with Manuela is that example is very important. And you have to always keep reminding them, where you came from and your story, because I think that one of the things that reveals to me the most was actually being aware on a very frequent basis of what my parents went through. And I think that I don’t think that should be done in a dramatic way.

But just look, there’s a huge amount of luck everywhere. I mean, if you were born in Ethiopia, your life chances will be really, really low. So there’s really something that you have to celebrate by the fact that you live, that you were able to travel to a developed country, and how have all this opportunities. So I think yes, so I think having that example, and having a healthy reminder of the things that you had to go through and really working as an example, because even though you are successful, I think that the core values they need, they need to be present just to treat people well, just to help others as much as possible. And then yes, that will be my 50 cents on that.

[Jaz]
I like that and just give me an idea to do charitable projects and countries and maybe I can’t subject him to all the things that I went through, but to observe and see, look, how can we help these individuals. But you know, if it was for a different circumstance, you might have been this individual, you were born into a family that could look after you in the way that they do. But that is by pure one in a million chance. We need to really appreciate that. And I think we all need to address that.

[Jorge]
And the thing that, I am a very evidence based guy and stuff like that. So if you really look at the psychology, there is no happiness without struggle, isn’t it? I won’t say dramatic struggle. But I mean, if you have to have a good body have to work out if you want to have, if you want to have more stable emotions, you have to meditate. So there’s always something that you need to intentionally do. It’s not something that is born with you or just drops out of heaven, you really have to be intentional about that.

[Manuela]
I would just say- I was just going to add a very short thing to what you said, Andre. I would just change the word struggle with challenge, I think that it has to do for even the stress. There’s a good stress, okay, when it’s too much, then when it’s part negative, then you have the distress, that that stress was for you to to be able to be motivated and everything’s stress, a certain amount of stress is good. And that’s what challenges the challenge gives yoy that’s a very important thing in life. And I think that’s some people that’s why they get stuck in this comfort zone, which is not even comfortable. It’s just what they are used to.

[Jorge]
Yes.

[Manuela]
Because they fear the challenge. They fear the struggle that you just said also. And they know that they have to make changes, they know that they have to get out of their comfort zone. And that’s really scary for some people. So, if you look at it from a positive side that, a certain amount of challenges good for you. It’s going to make you grow, it’s going to make you evolve. That’s a positive thing. Okay, sorry. Continue.

[Jorge]
It’s gonna make you happier. Yeah. So I think that all the topics that we written down, we went through, but I would just like to ask you just for as a final thought from you. So Manuela said that, I think you are you you have developed the podcast in dentistry. So yes, there’s a huge, huge responsibility in that as well. So what are your goals? How do you see Protrusive? Do eventually see that, as a physical space, it’s only going to be online? What are the main goals because I think that, up until now you have really placed the refreshing and very new and very positive energy in dentistry. So what’s your goals for for the podcast and for protrusive? So what’s the legacy that you want to leave behind? Youyou have already left?

[Jaz]
That’s a good question. I like that. I appreciate that. Legacy is a great question. I mean, in terms of direction, goal, nothing major. But you know, most of my listeners are about 70%, maybe 65%. UK. Number two is US, Australia, there’s still so many dentists who haven’t checked out protrusive. And if I can inject them with some enthusiasm, and some clinical tips. So I think it’s a more about discovery, I think I’d love more dentists to learn more about protrusive, and learn and share and come on as guests and stuff. So I think there’s a lot of growth still to happen in terms of legacy. In fact that legacy can be that listening to this podcast, made me feel good.

Before I started, my day is one thing. And number two, that thing that I struggled with, listen to that podcast, it made it tangible, I finally get exactly why you put the thin cord in first, and then a fat cord in second and the role of things like that, where maybe those little questions, you can’t ask at dental school because you need a bigger picture first. And also, sometimes when you’re interviewing someone who’s like, you know, 40 years experience, and then they’re a master of composite resin, and they can teach you how to use 16 different layers and stuff. But the dentist just wants to know how many seconds to etch for, and which one do you use? Right? I want to be the guy who just says guys etch for 20 seconds? Yes. You know, I want to get that direct information out there to make people get started in their journeys and fulfill their clinical desires.

[Jorge]
Yeah, I really think that you have been very successful in that because I think that the online dentistry field has been filled with that rock star mentality and the superstar that only superstars can do good dentistry. And I think that you can, you did inject a lot of confidence and self esteem in the dentistry that the average dentist, which is all of us, but at the end of the day, we are all ever dentists because 90% of our work is average dentistry, isn’t it? And at the end, it just you’re just dealing with the person in front of you. And honestly, I don’t know any dentist that does not want to do a good job. So, thank you so much for that. And thank you so much for the inspiration. And I really hope that we can have you for for many years in dentistry. And by the way, do you think you’re going to do clinical dentistry for the rest of your life? Or you do have some other plans?

[Jaz]
I mean, if you asked me five years ago, I’d say yeah, clinical dentistry until I’m 70. And I’ve now changed that to clinical denstistry til I’m 55. And so I’m 55 maybe, but yeah, clinical dentistry for sure. I mean, I love it. And I look at my laptop. Same as you, Andre, you’re opening up your Google Photos. It’s like teeth and gingival margins everywhere on a daily basis. I still like to buy the new gadgets and still like to do all the things. I think it’s backbreaking work, and we look after our health and stuff so my focus is definitely you know, looking after myself but doing more exercise. I think since I became a father, I realized that we joined the gym last week me my wife, my son.

[Jorge]
Yes.

[Jaz]
We’re gonna do family gym time, but I think.

[Jorge]
Very good

[Jaz]
Yeah, as far as until at least age 55. I see my future in clinical dentistry and I have so much to learn. I think my future is more TMD airway, but just as comprehensive dentistry, but I just love being a general dentist. And so I’ll put one last thing up there, opportunity people that qualify, they think, ‘Okay, I need to be a specialist. I need to to be a specialist, I want to endodontics, I’m gonna do perio.’ There’s not enough people who qualify and say, ‘I want to be a generalist.’ And I feel as though three years ago, when I started the podcast, I started talking about the beauty of being a GDP. And I think that’s one more legacy is that I want people, dentists, 93% of us are general dentists.

I want them to get validation from what they do. And remember that being a general dentists is the most difficult role in dentistry there is and let’s not forget that. And remember the most beautiful thing also, and the best thing about being GDP is cherry picking. So when you have that sour cherry, you pass it on, it’s okay. Okay, you get the best cherries. And there’s no shame on that because we have all the downside, let’s have an upside as well.

[Jorge]
That’s so cool. So I guess that we are not going to steal you more time but I am 100% sure that we’ll have that we want to try it for a second time here in this in Soft Bites to talk of the same things or some different things. So it really is a pleasure to have you with us. And-

[Manuela]
Thank you, Jaz. It was really wonderful.

[Jorge]
And I hope yeah-

[Jaz]
Pleasure is all mine guys. Honestly, it’s been great to get to know you both. Andre will see you again in May. We should do a dual thing and Manuela you should also come to Porto.

[Manuela]
You’re real first and all so-

[Jorge]
We do can that.

[Jaz]
I think more and more I get demand for courses abroad and retreats and stuff.

[Jorge]
Yes.

[Jaz]
And you know to work on the mind.

[Jorge]
Yeah.

[Jaz]
You know, the brain hands? The work on the brain, and mind with Manuela and work in hand with Andre, we should totally do that.

[Jorge]
And we are we are giving a course in October. It’s like it’s a four day course that we do in Sagres. About mindful dentistry and practical tips on management.

[Jaz]
Wow.

[Jorge]
But yes, yeah. But we can make something about the vertical preparation and do like a full day of mindfulness and some and some tips on career orientation and management of teams.

[Manuela]
I would love that.

[Jorge]
And I think that we have some positive things to discuss.

[Jaz]
I think that will go down really well mixing the clinical, non-clinical and in abroad. I know there’s a huge demand UK to go to see and Andre. So, if you marry that up when it’s something non-clinical as well, I think will add more value.

[Jorge]
Absolutely. And it’s always an excuse for you to stay at longer and to party longer and to go to more restaurants and stuff like that.

[Jaz]
More, more friends more.

[Manuela]
Okay, fado and saudade, but then we are very good at partying also.

[Jorge]
Yes, yes.

[Jaz]
This is very true.

[Jorge]
We want to forget our sadness by-

[Jaz]
It’s very evident. That was very clear. I’m glad this has been the birth of something very exciting in the future.

[Manuela]
Thank you so much for being with us.

[Jorge]
Thank you Jaz.

[Jaz]
It’s been a great. You guys are doing amazing things with soft bites. And I can’t wait to share this with my community as well. So you can check out all the good things we’re doing.

[Manuela]
Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you for everyone that-

[Jorge]
Thank you Jaz.

Jaz’s Outro:
Thank you.