The Secrets to Finding a Passion in Dentistry – IC036

Jaz’s Introduction:
And the other one that describes this episode really well, which I almost considered was Fall in Love with Dentistry all over again. Hello, Protruserati. I’m Jaz Gulati and I’m the host of Protrusive Dental Podcast. This is a non-clinical interruption. We call this an Interference Cast. If it’s your first time listening, thanks for joining me.

I appreciate it. It’s a whole three or four years worth of content that you need to explore, but if you are a regular listener, thanks for joining us again. This episode is a bigger picture episode. This episode is kind of like a feel good and an emotional exploration of your why and your purpose in your life and in your career.

Some of the themes that we cover are things like imposter syndrome, my goodness. So I do get imposter syndrome less now than I used to, but when I get it, I get it in a big way. So we’ll talk about how Karl experience is and how we both overcome that. We also talk about our journeys in moving to private density and how we actually felt bad about leaving the public health dentistry and what that kind of looked like.

Our little roadmap. The other thing we discuss is how we both want to, we’re both on a mission, Karl and I to infect you guys, you listening right now with enough positivity that you can head into work with excitement. In fact, the thing I love about protrusive and what it’s become and you guys is the messages I get are kind of like in this vein here.

I’m just going to read a message out to you from, oh, hey, it’s Dr. Albert, Albert, thanks so much, for freeing a listener. You sent a really lovely message. He said lots of nice things and I’ll cut to chase. He said, I’ve been practicing for seven years and have been stuck in a lot of routine, mundane mindsets that have been holding me back.

And watching PDP episodes on YouTube has gotten me so excited about all sorts of new things. Thank you again, and please keep up the great work. So, these messages, which I get saying about how you’re feeling more positive towards sensory, this is what it’s all about, man. This is what it’s all about, and this is such a huge part of what me and Karl discussed today.

We talk about finding your why, but also why Karl does not like goal setting. So if you listen towards the middle to end, you’ll find out why goal setting is not recommended by Karl. And a big part of this is mental health and not feeling like you have to be like every other Instagram dentist. Like you don’t have to do that to be happy.

There are other ways of defining your values and living your life and working your career in tune with your values. And what I love about Karl and his book In the Loupe is that all the profits go towards ConfiDental. ConfiDental is a charity which is emotional first aid for dentists. So Karl, I applaud you, my friend.

I think what you’re doing in spreading positivity in our profession, much needed, positivity is absolutely fantastic. And if you guys enjoy today and the conversations and the themes that you should definitely pick up the book, it’s out from the 27th of February. Show Karl and ConfiDental your support.

I hope you enjoy my chat with Karl today. I hope that you’ll feel inspired to take control of your life and take a massive stride towards having a fulfilling career. I’ll catch you in the outro.

Main Episode:
Karl Walker-Finch, welcome to the Protrusive Dental Podcast, my friend. How are you?

[Karl]
I’m fantastic, Jaz. Thank you so much for having me on. It’s feels like it’s been a little welcoming, mate.

[Jaz]
It’s been great to see you because you’re such a great member of the Protruserati. You are the one that came up with a term Protruserati. So for those who want in the background, it was on the Facebook group and I was like, ah, our group needs a name.

It’s just called Protrusive Dental Community. I think that we can do better. And there were so many different suggestions. There were some obscene ones. I’ll have to figure out, I’ll to find that little thread on Facebook. But I loved, I love Protruserati, so thank you so much. Which is why you’ve been sent a hoodie. Just show off your hoodie, man.

[Karl]
Yeah, I’ve got Marty, here. It’s not got baby stain all over it of anything. So yeah, it’s, it’s been-

[Jaz]
Mine’s usually got coffee stains on it, so you’ve done well. No, again, thanks so much for contributing to the community in that way. Tell us a little bit about yourself, buddy. Tell us your origin story. I want to talk about something. I want to talk about a large part I talk about today is your book and what you write in your book. Cause I love that so much. And the charity you’re supporting, and the great content is the best dental book I’ve read in my life. I’m just telling you right with that right now.

Okay. So, I’ve read a lot of dental books, is the best dental book I’ve read in my life. So I want to say that right now. Make it public. But tell us about you, Karl. For those who don’t know you, tell us your origin story.

[Karl]
Yeah, you’re very kind. You’re very kind. Thank you. Well, yeah, so I grew up in Wilmington, moved over to Liverpool for my undergraduate, my BDS, and qualified in 2010.

After some ups and downs job in university, got out into the big wild world of dentistry. Started practicing in the NHS, did five years in the NHS to start off with, married a Yorkshire lass and then moved over to Yorkshire.

And when I moved over to Yorkshire, I was looking for these jobs. I was looking for NHS jobs and every NHS job I could find was in a corporate. And I’ve never worked for a corporate, so I can’t really comment on what it’s like to work for a corporate.

[Jaz]
It’s crap. Sorry, sorry. I’ve got a frog in my throat. Really bad frog. My, awful frog.

[Karl]
You’ve got. But I’d never worked for, and I didn’t, I hadn’t heard great stories and I didn’t fancy it. And so, I thought, well, what else is out there? And there was a private job going practice in Woodfield, well, a couple of factors in Woodfield.

And because of my background in dental implants, cause I’ve done a few dental implants by that point, it fit really well with whether principal dentist wanted to take the practice with regards to offering more things in-house. And so, I got the job there and I started working in a mostly. Private practice.

[Jaz]
Can I just ask you; can I just stop you on that Karl? When you were applying for that position, did you get like something that I experienced when I was going fully private is, this imposter syndrome. Like you feel like you’re not ready to go into private. Did you have, did you battle with that?

[Karl]
I get imposter syndrome most days at the moment. Still, it did. Absolutely. Yeah. I had this trepidation about getting into private dentistry.

I mean, I kind of had this loyalty to the NHS. I wanted to repay the NHS for, you know, all the help and support and the funding that got me through university.

And, you know, I’ve done five years, but I felt like I still wanted to give more. But yeah, I thought, right, well, the standards going to go up. I’ve got to do better. I’ve got to do more than, and to some extent that’s true. Yeah. You know, people are paying a lot more money for this service and yeah, you’ve got to offer a le a better level of service.

But it came to a choice of like, well, do I want to sacrifice me and what I’m doing and the work I’m doing to go and work for a corporate NHS style environment still? Or do I want to push myself and raise my level to fit in and go, yeah, you know what, I’m going private and it’s not going to be perfect straight away.

Nothing ever is. But I thought, you know what? I’m going to push myself and if private is all it’s cracked up to be then great. I’m going to push myself to be at that level. I got in there and I was surprised at how quickly you adapt to the working style. More time, more talking with patients. It’s great you get, actually have proper conversations with your patients and connect-

[Jaz]
Proper relationships as well.

[Karl]
Yeah, and you know, there will be those that can argue, you can do that on the NHS to some extent. And, you know, I always tried to connect with my patients when I was working mostly in NHS, but I really get to dedicate pretty much as much time as I want to or need to, to every patient.

You know, if they’re anxious, they’re just getting more time and that’s fine. Yeah. Whatever it just, you can do whatever you need to do for your patients.

[Jaz]
The thing that I found most liberating is not being confined by what the system can dictate you can and cannot do. And just like forgetting about it.

So now when I’m on Facebook and I’m scrolling through the dental groups, Anything that’s about what does the system say can be done, or what the system is allowed or not, I can just, I can smile and just skip right past that. I’m not giving that any of my time attention. So in the same way, it felt liberated, like the shackles have been broken because now I wasn’t thinking, okay, this patient needs, three root canals, four crowns.

I might as well work at Tesco’s versus also trying to then unfortunately, this, I’m just speaking the truth and trying to think, okay, how can I work smarter here so that it puts me in my practice in a better situation in terms of how much time is spent in the chair. Those are kind of real thoughts that happen every single day and let’s face it.

So having to not think about that and having to just to think, how can I help the patient? Now, of course, in the real world, in private, you have budgetary constraints that every patient carries with them, but that is part and parcel of any service that you provide. But that is much nicer challenge to have and a nicer problem to have than working in a confined environment. That’s the biggest benefit I thought.

[Karl]
Yeah. I think the other thing for me was not, I had this real difficulty doing what I felt was sales selling private treatment to patients when I was on the NHS. And I’d be like, well, I can do this crown for you for 200 and was it 246 pounds or something when I was last in the NHS? That’s, I don’t know what the band three is now, but yeah-

[Jaz]
Hashtag inflation.

[Karl]
I go in, well, yeah. But then going, well, I could do it privately for you for 400 pounds. Well, why would I do it privately? I don’t know, it might be a slightly nicer crown. But the reality was I wasn’t nearly likely to be doing an awful lot more than I wouldn’t. And I just, I felt really conflicted by it.

[Jaz]
I hated that so much, Karl. And same with the root canal. Now, I don’t know how our colleagues do this and some are great at doing it about, oh, you can have the NHS root canal now you can have the private root canal in the private, I get to use. This fancy equipment, the electric equipment.

Wow. I mean, that is a shaky territory. And I didn’t want to go in that. I’d never ever have done a private root canal whilst in mixed practice I just couldn’t do it. Because for me it was like, well, you either do the root canal or you don’t. So anyway, that’s why me And you didn’t make great NHS dentists,

[Karl]
Yeah. And I don’t know. And you know what? I enjoyed my time working as an NHS Dentist. And I enjoy my time working as a private dentist and I’ve had highs and lows in both. But now I would really struggle if I had to go back into a fully NHS or a nearly fully NHS environment. I honestly would, I don’t think I could do it. I couldn’t do the job justice, and I have a great deal of admiration for anybody who can’t.

[Jaz]
Hundred percent.

[Karl]
It’s a hard job.

[Jaz]
You guys, the dentist that and you know what I should give myself stuff on the risk because James, I’m not going to say a certain, I’m not embarrass you, but James, had a nice beer with you one day and you told me off in a nice way for calling out NHS dentist and calling him NHS dentist.

And you’re not, you know, just a dentist who chooses to work under a contract. So, give myself something. There’s no such thing as an NHS dentist, such as a dentist who chooses to work under that contract. And you’re right. And for those dentists who choose to work an NHS contract, are doing an amazing service, keep it up in a good way.

But if you feel as though you need to change course, then you should. And maybe this episode will inspire you. Maybe Karl and my experiences is going to hopefully help you along the journey. We’re always easy to reach on the Protrusive Dental community. Check us out on Facebook. But I want to take this direction of the podcast.

I just want to do a little bit of celebration of your book, Karl. So please, tell us about your book and then I’m going to pick apart because a few of my favorite chapters, a few of my favorite sentences. I want to just get you to speak a little bit more about that. So just tell us about, your book because at the time me and you connected, I was also writing a book.

I’m happy to share the name of my unwritten book. It’s called, The Bit Between Your Teeth. I was really proud of it. Tell us about your book, Karl, because you’ve done far more than I ever could. It’s really good.

[Karl]
Yeah, I mean the points of the book, I’ll say, just to segue in from the last point, I’ve not differentiated you between NHS and private within the book, you know, dentist.

And my career, as I said, has been up and down as a dentist. I’ve been qualified like 11 years now, and I’ve had times where I’ve had that feeling, that dread all weekend about knowing that I’ve got to go back into work on Monday morning and get flew another week of work. And you know, I’m not relating that to any NHS or private.

This is just, I had this dread that thought. I’ve not always loved being a dentist. I’ve not always loved being in dentistry. I do now. I love the fact that we get to help people every day. I love the fact that, you know, we’ve got to have this knowledge, this skill, this passion, this intense attention to detail, the perfectionism, the challenge that every different case brings, and the fact that we can make a big difference to people’s lives.

I love it. I really do. But it’s not always been that way. A few years ago I started listening to these personal development books on audible reading and a lot of stuff. All these great people, Stephen Goldin, Daniel Pink, Austin Kleon I’m looking up at my bookshelf now.

[Jaz]
Simon Sinek. There’s a lot of Simon Sinek I can sense in your book. Yeah, absolutely.

[Karl]
It is. And all of these things say, wow, this is amazing stuff. This is really powerful stuff. But so much of it isn’t really relevant to me. I’m doing all this reading and I’ve read the dental books as well and all these, and I said, you know what, wouldn’t it be great if I could take everything I’ve learned my journey from disliking, hating, not wanting to be a dentist, the fear of going to go through another week, the fear of patients complaining about me getting sued, the GDC, all of that fear and anxiety about being a dentist.

What if I can show people how I’ve built myself a career that I love and you know the thought once upon a time think, oh God, I’ve got to do this for another 40 years. To now going, great. I get to do this for like another 30 years or longer if I want to. How have we gone from A to B? And if we can bring in all of this stuff from all these personal development books.

I mean, my audible, I had a look before to just check. I want like two and a half months of listening time on Audible now, and I’m like, well that’s bonkers.

[Jaz]
What speed do you listen at Karl?

[Karl]
One and a half to two times, depending on the speed the innovator talks.

[Jaz]
Yeah. Okay. That has a strong bearing on it. You’re right.

[Karl]
But yeah. What if we could get all of that into like one book that’s relevant to dentistry and that can make a difference to some dentist lives and, you know, help other people love what they do. I mean, there’s that fear of everything that doom scrolling that we do through Facebook, reading everybody else’s horror stories and the, and how unreasonable these patients have been to them and all of how reason reasonable the principles been to them or the nurses.

All of this stuff, all of these problems that we encounter. You know, what if we could find some way of helping people overcome these issues and grow stronger together and really build this career, this passion, for helping people with dentistry, for doing what we love, because I’m not the only person who loves what loves what I do.

I know you do. It’s obvious the moment you speak to you or listen to one of your podcasts. And there are thousands of other dentists who love what they do as well, but there are many, many other dentists, possibly many more dentists that don’t. And you know, this is not like a switch. It’s not like you’ve either born to love dentistry or not.

You know, this is a journey you can go on and you can build this amazing career for yourself. And what I wanted to do was take everything that. I’ve learned in my career so far and used that to maybe help other dentists get to the same place, that same feeling that I’ve got of going, great. I’m back in work tomorrow.

I can, I’m going to do this and this and this, or, you know, I’ve got a new assessment. Awesome. What’s this patient going to be like? You know, it’s a great feeling to have, but it’s not something that a lot of people do have.

[Jaz]
It’s so true. And I think that’s the number one thing going forward for the mental of dentists with something we’re going to touch on as well. and I’ve always said, I’ve always been the vocal about being about okay, not rather being, but sometimes to know which direction to head in. You have to understand which direction not to head in. And the kind of direction we as dentists should not be heading in is the kind of dentist.

Now as you’re like curing, you’re looking at the clock. Not because you’re counting down how many seconds you are waiting for the like you to finish, but you are actually genuinely waiting for the day to end. Everything that we should do should help us to deviate away from that, I think. And definitely your book is, does that, and I’ve just chosen a few things now.

You talk about finding your passion, and that is such a big part of it, and I just wanted to say that, or read out, or just some segments of it. It’s just to put it in your context so you can explain more about what is the ideal work ferry dentist? So, you, you talk about how the work can sometimes be on one end of the spectrum can be done in laborious and on the other end it can be overwhelming and exhausting.

So, I’m just reading for certain parts of your book. And I love this term that you’ve used, which I’ve never seen related to dentistry before, and use this term emotionally expensive. And that is something that I really loved and I reconnected to. So just explain a little bit more a about that in relation to finding your passion in dentistry.

[Karl]
Yeah. I mean, dentistry is exhausting. I remember that feeling that I still get tired at the end of the day today, you know, don’t get me wrong, but that feeling earlier in my career when I wasn’t quite so used to talking people and engaging with people at such an intensity and forming new relationship, it takes a lot of energy in your mind to really focus in on exactly, you know, what each patient needs, what each patient wants, and you have to make all these decisions through the day, these diagnoses and everything about every step of the treatment that you’re providing.

If you are early in your career, you’re not used to doing that. Your brain hasn’t strengthened its muscles. Cause our brain’s a muscle in a lot of ways. Like anything else, you know, if you want to get stronger, physically stronger, you go to the gym and you push yourself to your limits.

You stress your muscles, and you stress your muscles and they recover and they come back a little bit stronger. And our brain’s the same. You know, you go to work every day and you stress your brain. You push your brain, you push yourself just out of your comfort zone, and you engage with a few more patients and you on a deeper level.

And that’s emotionally challenging at the start of your career when you’re not used to doing that. You can’t go from zero to perfect straight away. You have to build it up over time.

The key with finding your way is when you are getting exhausted and when you’ve been, you know, on the NHS I’ve maybe seen 30 patients.

As in getting towards the end of the day, it’s having that resilience to get back up and go again and say, you know what? This next patient is now the most important person. It’s challenging yourself to push yourself up to that next level again, to go again and to connect with that next person.

[Jaz]
How did you find your passion, you think? So just taking bits and book like everyone’s got their own journey. So how did you figure out that the implants, the cosmetic dentistry, the rehabs, that was your calling. And what do you say then? And then we’ll move on to the fact that the happiness doesn’t necessarily come from just doing the kind of work that you do.

Because the next bit I really loved was, I’m just going to read the bit I absolutely love, was that, ‘If you enjoy doing checkups and routine dentistry, the levels of challenge that brings the stability, the income, and the freedom of not needing to constantly attend the next course, then embrace it and run with it.’

Man, I love that so much. I think a lot of people need to hear that. A lot of people who see Instagram dentistry and everyone’s posting all these full mouth rehabs and people are swimming in Invisalign liners and stuff like that and setting up all these boxes of Invisalign. But really you are just happy to provide a good level of care, which in some people’s eyes might be basic, but yeah, you love that and you don’t feel the pressure of having to go on these complex courses all the time, then there is a place for you in this universe. It’s the message I got from that. And I think so many people would love to hear that.

[Karl]
You know what, it’s not just a place, it’s not just a place for you in this, it’s actually, that’s the bulk of what we need in dentistry.

That’s that. You know, we don’t need 40,000 implant specialists. You know, you can’t, we’re not specialists, but you don’t need 40,000 people who can place dental implants. You don’t need 40,000 people who can do Invisalign. What you need is, you know, maybe 30,000 people, 30,000 dentists out of the 40,000 dentists in the UK who are really good at being general dentists, who are really good at looking after their patients and caring for them and keeping them well maintained, preventing general dental disease, and that’s the most important part of dentistry.

[Jaz]
And I think that needs to be said. So I’m so glad we said that. And then on the opposite side, if you don’t enjoy the routine stuff, there are many different pathways. Or if you don’t enjoy dentistry at all, you go into that as well, in your book. Cause there’s only so many other pathways with dentistry you can take from specialism to hospital community, research.

But it’s about realizing that your happiness doesn’t come from whether you are in NHS, or you are in private or how you’re remunerated. There’s far more to it. So what I want to ask you is, Karl, when you were going through this journey in yourself, how did you realize that okay, just doing the general routine dentistry didn’t quite cut the mustard for you and you wanted to put yourself in these extra courses, uncomfortable scenarios, complications, because with doing a high level work comes high level complications, more sleepless nights, that needs to be said.

So how did you decide that, okay, this is the pathway for me and I want to abuse myself in this way before I can become good at something and provide this level of niche service?

[Karl]
Yeah, I mean, just to pick up on something you said there. Every level of dentistry has complications. Okay. And what you’ve got to be able to do as a dentist, is be able to deal with the complications of the things you’re doing.

So the fact that okay, implant, yes, I place dental implants, yes, I do sinus lift, and are all of this stuff that comes with that I, before you are ready to undertake that treatment, you’ve got to be confident that you’ve got a pretty good grasp of how to deal with the complications of doing that treatment.

That’s one of the biggest hurdles to overcome when you’re pushing yourself to develop, do it, put in an implant in screwing an implant in dead easy. No problem at all. It’s chimps work. It’s the old jokes about theological the surgeons in the hospital, they just screw bones back together or whatever.

You know, the chimps, you don’t need any kind of special skills really to screw in it, and put a screw in a jaw but it’s dealing with the complications, interpreting the situation, doing all the planning and all of that stuff that comes with it. And no matter what level of dentistry you are at, if we can categorize it into levels, even for the general dentist, you’re going to have complications.

You’re going to have complications without MOD restoration that you’ve just done is going to break at some point, and you’re going to have to deal with that. Or you’re going to go to do an MOD restoration and you’re going to have to find that you’re going to find that those costs are really, really narrow, really thin, and they’re going to rake off if you leave them.

You know, when you have to out. You have to make that decision direct and indirect. And so dealing with complications is something that you have to do at every point in your journey in dentistry. Coming back to your point about how did my journey lead me to where I am now? I never got to a point where I said, oh, actually, you know, being a general dentist doing the routine dental checks and all of this isn’t enough for me.

What happened was I went to university and like most people, most students, most 18 year olds go into university to get dentistry. The biggest exposure to dentistry they’ve had is orthodontics. So I went to university. Oh great, I’ll be an orthodontist. Then I got into university, right? Let’s go and explore orthodontics, go and invest myself as much as I can in orthodontics.

And I got there. I was going through it, I think. This is really boring. Don’t like this. It’s my opinion. That’s just my perception of it.

[Jaz]
If you don’t like dentistry, be an orthotist. We all know that.

[Karl]
Yeah. No, no, no. Well, I wouldn’t have looked at orthodontics and I didn’t enjoy the orthodontics, so I was like, okay, well what else is there?

And I was going and I was going to be, actually, I’m not bad at taking teeth out, you know, obviously now 21, 22 year old thinks he knows everything because he’s been on to take out an upper six. But you know, I said, right, okay. Surgery’s possibly where it’s at. And then these things called dental implants, 2009, 2010, were really starting to take off.

Think, right. Well, okay, how can I find out more about dental implants? And I was looking around at where I was going to go for my foundation year in dentistry. And there was this practice on the will called Glen Keir, and I was like, actually, they place implants there. They do a lot of implants. So the guys now my mentor, my foundation trainer was David Speechley, a guy called David Speechley

And there were two foundation trainers in the practice who was Simon Wright. Both of these two are now professors and it’s just, you know, so I saw this practice like, oh, you know what they do implants. I had some colleagues in all the years that I knew from dental school had been there and said, oh yeah, it’s a good practice to be out, get good exposures to all this stuff.

It’s like, you know what, that’s where I want to be. So I did everything I could to get myself into that practice. And when I was there, I did everything I could to shadow Simon and David placing dental implants. I thought, you know what, I quite like this idea of dental implants fill in these spaces, not having these fluffy dentures all over the place.

So I immersed myself in the subject as much as I could. And then come the end of my foundation year, I was thinking, yeah, I still really like this idea of dental implants. I’d love to be able to do this. So I got myself on a course and I went and did Professor Buser’s course in dental implants in Manchester, and I did the year course and got myself some patience and Simon and David mentored me and as it went along, I was just really enjoyed doing the implants and I was still doing everything else alongside it.

Still enjoyed doing the other bits, but the implants, I was like, you know what? I really, really like this. And so, I immersed myself in it a bit deeper. I went round and shadowed some more people. I went on more courses than I did a Master’s in it, and it just built quite organically. It wasn’t ever the case of, oh, I hate that.

General dentistry stuff. So, I’m getting out of that. I want to do everything I can to the implants. I still do dental health checks. I still look after a list of implant patients. And I love that. I love seeing the same faces come back every six months.

The relationship I’ve got with them, checking in with the kids as the kids are now getting older and all of the beautiful things of general dentist, all of those long-term patients that you see over and over again.

I still love doing that, but I also really love the implants as well. And just so happens at the moment that more people need implants than, or more people need me to do implants and rehabs and things like this for them, than general dentistry. And so the balance is tilting that way. So it wasn’t ever a point of going, oh no, I’ve got to get out of that situation.

It was just, I really love this situation. Let’s find out more about it. Let’s do as much to do with that as I can. And over time it’s just built and built and built.

[Jaz]
But you also did this thing whereby you thought it was orthodontics, so you are proactive. You did, you expose yourself to orthodontics and you didn’t get the same love back.

You made a decision. Actually, this might not be for me. So it’s not to say that, you know, if you are a young dentist and you’re thinking, oh, let me try implants, and then you go to shadow someone and you might not like, enjoy it at all, and that’s okay. Now shadow someone else who maybe does oral surgery or someone who does endo and you can visualize yourself being in that position.

So it’s about getting that exposure, getting that mentorship, getting some courses under your belt that are low level, and then eventually you build it up to something like a masters that you’ve done. That’s a good way to progress. And I guess it’s not about moving away from general dentistry, it’s more about finding a niche and an enjoyment of a slightly more specialized area where you can excel in. I guess that’s a good way to describe it.

[Karl]
And that’s the biggest thing for anybody coming out of university now if they’re wanting to, I listen to your podcast the other day with Pav about finding your niche in dentistry. I know it’s like an old one now, but it seems it was a while ago, but it’s that finding what you love and what you really enjoy and what you’re good at.

And if it is, say you wanted to be a general dentists, go and shadow some people being general dentists. Go and find some dentists who are working in nice practices who you maybe look up to and you go and see how they work, see how they operate in whatever it is.

You know, go and find out more about it. Read about it, read papers, read books. Go and shadow people. Ask people about it. You know, speak to people about it. Immerse yourself in that subject. And if the passion sticks, if you do it for a while and it’s still going strong, great. Do it some more.

[Jaz]
That is so true, and I think it’s a point well made that we always think about shadowing people with an enhanced skill or shadowing someone who’s an oral surgeon or an orthodontist or let me go shadow this person doing a sinus lift.

But actually, I remember vividly my experience of shadowing Rajiv Ruwala as a GDP when I was in my DF one. And I’m thinking, I was thinking, wow, man, this is a GDP who just did some beautiful crowns on the anterior. Now I’ve just seen someone for cobalt chrome. Now I’ve just seen child. Everyone’s left smiling the variety’s great.

So that was actually a big part of my journey. So I think I just want to emphasize that if you know, give GDP a shot as well, give general dentistry a good shot. Don’t just think that, okay, you want to be different. You want to be in that 7% of special services. 93% of density is general density.

So embrace it. And you could still find your niche within general dentistry like you have Karl. But it’s still beauty of being a general dentist now. Dentistry is part of our lives. And, I like the bit in your book about taking control of your life and taking control of your destiny.

So I want to ask you, I mean, I have some thoughts on this about, in terms of how I’ve done it, but can you give us examples of you, Karl, in terms of how have you thoughtfully and proactively planned your life and force your destiny in a way that has gone?

[Karl]
So, I really don’t like goals. Okay. I hate goals. Goals are for sport, goals are for these finite games. Football, basketball, whatever you want to play. It’s where you’ve got a tangible goal. You’ve got to score a goal. You’ve got to get a certain number of wickets and cricket, whatever it is. You have a set goal, there’s a set finish line.

And that goal gets you over the finish line to get your achievement. And life dentistry is not like that. There is no finish line in this. Okay. Yeah. You might say when you die or you retire, is your finish line, but you’re not going to, there’s no end point. You don’t, nobody writes their net worth on their gravestone, you know, for instance, so you, oh, I want to earn this much money.

I want to do this, or I want to have this sort of practice, you know, having a set goal. I just don’t get it. I’ve tried setting goals and I just don’t get it. And it’s, yeah, great business and all these corporate people who want you to do goes fine. Great. Okay, go for that. But, you know, when I was starting out an implant then, right?

This goal, I’m going to set myself a goal at placing 50 implants a year. Great. Let’s do 50 implants here. Well, what does that mean? It is absolutely nothing because I could go around and place 50 implants into a piece of wood. Does that count? If I could, if I go to the Dominican Republic and place 50 implants into these jaws that are the size of tree trunks, does that count?

If I’m in the UK and I’m placing implants, am I doing things just so I can get my 50 implants? Am I sort of maybe providing treatment unethically just so I can get my implant count up to place 50 implants? What happens if I’m doing really well one year and everybody wants implants and I’ve placed 50 implants?

Wait. Yeah. And so I can slack off for the rest of the year now because I’ve done my 50. Great. Well, I’ll chill out and then in January I’ll start. Okay. And this whole sort of defined goal thing doesn’t make any sense to me. That is not to say you can go through like without direction. If you have to have some sort of vision, some sort of direction that you want, take it.

Otherwise, you are just standing still. You know, the one certainty in life is change. Change is constant. Which means if you are not improving yourself at all time, if you are standing still, you’re not standing still, you are getting worse because everything else is getting better around you. So you have to constantly refresh yourself.

You have to constantly improve your knowledge just to stay afloat in some senses. But, so you have to keep an eye on your direction and where you’re going and for me, let’s go back to the implant example. That was about not necessarily placing 50 implants a year, but to go, okay, well, I’m going to place an implant, I’m going to plan it meticulous.

Write down to what incision I’m going to make. You know what local anesthetic, which sites I’m putting my local anesthetic in where and every tiny little detail. I’m going to take photos throughout that whole case and I’m going to reflect on that case as well. And every reflect on every little detail. And when that case doesn’t turn out 100% perfect because, hey, listen, in 11 years of dentistry, I’ve never done anything perfectly.

There’s always something I could have done a little bit better in every case. When it doesn’t turn out perfect, I’m going to look back through those pictures. I’m going to look back through my notes. So I’m going to say, right, how could I have done that better? And if I’m just driven for going, oh, well, 50 implants, and once I’m placing 50 implants a year, I’ll be a success, then you’re not going to learn anything at all in that process.

It’s the process of how you get there and reflecting on that process and improving that process that will ultimately lead to you becoming a better dentist. You know, the goal doesn’t matter. The outcome doesn’t matter. You know, goals, when covid hit, you know, everybody’s goals went out the window because goals don’t account for global pandemics.

But if you focus on the process and your development and improving yourself day upon day, then the outcome, the goals that you would’ve set anywhere, you’ll smash them out the park because day upon day you are building yourself stronger.

[Jaz]
It’s the journey rather than destination.

[Karl]
Yeah. I mean it’s, there’s 1,000,001 cliches that we can throw around of that sort of nature.

But it is, it’s about taking the steps day in, day out to build yourself stronger rather than just focusing on that destination, that endpoint, because the destinations will sort itself out. If you’ve started taking the steps in the right direction, you know, lean your ladder against the right wall before you start climbing it.

Whatever you want. However you want to phrase it. It’s about giving yourself the direction and implementing the process. So for me, that’s not how many implants do I want to place next year, but it’s if I continue to do what I’m doing now, well, what’s my life going to look like in five years? What’s my life going to look like in 10 years?

Not in five years. I want to own my own practice and in five years I want to be placed in a hundred implants, or I want a do of doing 50 full large cases. No, no, no. It’s if I keep doing what I do in now, what’s my life going to look like? And if I don’t like what I see, and we go, okay, well what can I do to make that life in five years look a little bit better?

What can I do today that’s going to sow the seeds in the future? And the thing to get your head around here is there’s no immediate payoff. You don’t get this immediate gratification. We love within this world of instant gratification. You know, you put a post on social media and you go, oh great, I’ve got 10 likes, 20 likes, 30 likes.

It’s only been an hour. Oh, I’ve put a blog post out. Yeah. Like 200 people have led this blog. That’s amazing. I’ve got this podcast. And you know, we celebrate the fact that, oh, he got thousands of people. Listen, great. But it’s, what do you do each and every time to make it that little bit better, to add that little bit more value to the people who are reading, to the people who are listening to you, to your patients that you are caring for, and you build those foundations and the rest takes care of itself.

[Jaz]
I love everything you said, and I just want to highlight the four questions that you’ve written your book, a line to exactly this theme. And obviously you’ve covered two those already. So, what Karl talks about in the book is how we can take control of our destiny. And four questions to ask yourself is, if I keep doing what I’m doing, what will my life look like in 5, 10, 20 years?

Number two is how do I want my life to look in a year’s time? Number three is what do I currently do that I hate? That’s a really strong one. And lastly, what do I love doing and want to do more of? So, I mean to an example of how I have used those questions. Not recently, because I’ve very recently read the book, but going back, maybe 15, 18 months ago in my life, I’m just thinking.

I’m in a scenario now where I decided that question number three, what do I currently do that I hate? I got to a situation Karl, where I just didn’t enjoy my commutes anymore. Yes, I was listening to audiobooks and podcast stuff, but the commute was long and I didn’t enjoy the lack of time with my son because I’d leave super early to go to Oxford and then come back and by then my son might be asleep.

So I was really struggling with an internal battle about not having a time with my son. So now I have a three minute drive, but now I started walking, so it’s like a 15 minute walk. And I’ve adopted a shift pattern work, so I found somewhere that does shift pattern. So I work from eight till two or two till eight.

The net result of that is I get so much more time with my son, I get to do the podcasting, and I get to still work environment that allows me to grow. So that was one example of me deciding, okay, this is where I’m at, but I want to take, I want to steer my ship in a certain direction. So I would encourage everyone to get Karl’s book, read that bit and really just answer it yourself, reflect on that bit, and come up with how you are going to take charge of your own destiny rather than allowing life just happening to you.

[Karl]
Yeah. I mean, what you’ve also done there, which is that another, in the essence are a lot of what the book’s about is coming back to why are you doing what you do? Why are you driving 45 minutes an hour to work every day and then doing the same coming home? And what would you rather be doing?

You want to be with your son, you want to be with your family. Of course you do that. I mean, I’m a family guy. That’s, you know, you don’t have to need to start singing that. Thank you, but I I’ve always known, even before I had kids, that family was the most important thing to me. And I want to do everything I can so I can be the best dad, the best husband, the best family member that I can be.

And that involves making sure I spend enough time with my family. That means making sure that I do enough work to provide a stable lifestyle for my family as well. And you know, it’s about figuring out why you are doing each thing that you’re doing. And you go, okay, well why do I travel so far to work if I don’t need to do that.

What would I rather be doing? I’d rather be with my son. Right? What steps can I take to get myself in a position where I don’t have to travel? I could move closer to work or they could be work closer to me and you’ve built yourself this career, your skills, your persona. You know, you are well known in dentistry.

Everybody knows Jaz now. But you built yourself, you’ve built your own personal brand opp to such an extent there. You know, right now you could probably walk into a job near enough anywhere in the country if you wanted it.

[Jaz]
I doubt that very much, but I see what you mean. I appreciate that.

[Karl]
But, building your own skillset up and developing yourself personally and professionally gives you that freedom to go, you know what, actually I don’t want to travel so far to work anymore. Maybe a job closer to home. And I’ve laid the foundations to actually give myself the freedom to choose where I want to go. And that does make all the difference.

[Jaz]
I’m going to ask two more main questions before we take any direction we want. And Karl, the next question is, I love that you mentioned the book atomic Habits. It’s also I think you probably told me about it some months ago. Really great book. I’ve been actually thinking about and we should probably do this, Karl, about how we can apply atomic habits in dentistry, and that is with how we motivate our patients to, how we motivate our staff members to how we can grow as clinicians every day. I think we should do it, Karl. Let’s arrange-

[Karl]
Yeah, there’s definitely something there.

[Jaz]
Atomic habits in dentistry. I think we can do such a great job of that. But I want to just ask you as a little flavor for what’s come, can you gimme an example of how you’ve implemented the power of atomic habits, either in your personal life or at work, because I know you’ve discussed it in the book.

[Karl]
Yeah. I mean, atomic habits is one of the best books, the personal development books I’ve read. I mean, I’ve made about it before. The whole ethos, the whole thing around Atomic Habits is, making small incremental changes day on day. And those changes, if you can improve by 1% every day, that 1% compounds. And over the course of the year, you get a 3700% increase in your effectiveness, whatever that might be.

And the point of atomic habits is building those foundations. So one of the example that I use in the book is I was, I’d moved over to private practice and I’d been there for a year or two, and I thought, you know what, what I really need to do to take my dentistry to the next level is start using rubber dam for pretty much everything, everything possible.

And so one day I just decided, right, you know what? I’m going to implement this today, I’m going to start using rubber dam for every composite restoration. I was already doing it for root canal treatment. I was doing every inlay preparation if an inlay fit, you know, whatever was, I was going to use rubber dam for pretty much everything.

I could possibly have an excuse for using rubber dam for and you know, dental health check. Yeah. Should we use rubber dam for this ? But it was a case of, so mate, I could, that’s it. Flip switch. Okay, that’s what I’m going to do. You know, and yeah, it took me a while to get that rubber dam on at first because I wasn’t used to doing it as often.

And it took a while because the nurse had to get it all up. But when you engage your team, you say to your nurse, look, I think we’re going to do a better job for our patients if we use rubber dam because it’s going to stop all that amalgam stain all over their mouth. It’s going to stop all their saliva washing around this filling while we’re trying to seal it up. If we can do this, I think we’re going to do a much, much better job for the patient.

[Jaz]
And that’s also how you sell it to your patient as well.

[Karl]
Yeah, exactly. It is. And you engage your team with why you’re doing it. And you say this is what’s happening for now. We’re going to do this. And so my nurse know now every single time, every single patient, she’s got the rubber dam on ready for me because she knows if that rubber dam’s not on the side, I’m going to ask for it.

And she’s then going to have to go and get it. Okay. Because she’s already got the rubber dam out. It’s dead easy for me to then go, oh great. I’ve got the rubber dam that I’m going to use it. Everybody knows we’re on board. Okay, we’re going to implement this habit, we’re going to use rubber dam for everything.

And in fact, it’s more than just easy for me to use the rubber dam. I feel bad if I don’t use the rubber dam because my nurse has got to the trouble of getting the thing out. So I know if I don’t use that rubber dam now I’m going to get the look. And I’m going to get daggers because I’ve made her get it out for every patient and I’ve not used it, so it’s easier for me to use it and implement that habit.

[Jaz]
It’s a way of doing it accountability. And I’m the same. I use rubber dam for pretty much everything that I can. And the other example I can give to those listening and watching, in terms of an anatomic habit that you can create is those who are on the journey into dental photography and you’ve bought the stuff, but you’re just not in the habit of taking photos.

Well, don’t be that dentist who, when you’re ready to take a photo, you need to be like, okay, let’s get the mirror. Let’s heat the mirror now. Can you get the retractors out? You know, just has to walk out. Now you need to get your lens and attach it to your body, and then put the flash on. And then you’re thinking, oh crap, I forgot the settings.

Don’t be that dentist. Have the settings ready on, in laminated or set on the camera ready. Have everything attached already. Have the mirror on the heater, already. Have the retractors there, and have this pre-chat with your nurse first saying, Hey, you know what? I’m really serious about taking photos, and I want to do this as much as possible.

And then let’s start by doing an incremental change by every new patient will get photos and then build up from there. And then every composite will get photos. And then you’ll build and build and build. So that’s another implementation of atomic habit. So I’m so glad you mentioned that in the book.

And then now I want to move on to, because I want to do a whole episode with you about incremental changes we can make atomic habits apply to dentistry. I’m so excited for that.

[Karl]
We’ll come back to that one.

[Jaz]
I took, yeah, we’ll come back to that one. And I want to talk about a really, I’ve saved the best for us because something that, I’m really, really keen for you to explore further is the support of charity from this book and in particular, a very, very, I mean, they’re all charities are important, but this is such a key charity. I met Jeremy Cooper at the BACD and I said to him, look, I want to do what I can, what Protrusive, to raise a bar and let everyone know that ConfiDental exists. So please tell us about why you chose ConfiDental and then, tell us about, you and your wife and how, you know, you are taking a direction in terms of helping people with helping dentists with their mental health.

[Karl]
Yeah, my mental health generally, okay, so I’ve never been formally diagnosed with anything, okay. But I have these periods of highs and lows, so almost like a very mild form of like manic depression. It sounds really dramatic, which Oh God, manic depression. Oh. But that’s sort of how it goes.

And it ebbs and flows. And sometimes I can take a long time for a while and then I’ll have like a manic phase and then a low phase. A GP friend of mine sort of said it sounds a bit like what we call cyclothymia, which is like a mild manic depression. And I started reading up about it. I was like, eh, it kind of does sound a bit like me, really.

It’s almost like it’s cyclical up and down. Call it my mom, period. Sometimes it’s, you know, sort of hits me like a hormonal imbalance every couple of months. And I just dip and I probably just offended 50% of your listeners. But, yeah, so mental health has always been something that I’ve had on my radar and my Yorkshire last. My wife, she’s a psychotherapist and so she’s a counselor, so she’s dealing with-

[Jaz]
I had this burning raise to know this right now, because I have a patient who’s a psychotherapist and I have a patient who’s a psychiatrist. I know psychiatry needs medicine first. And basically they just give you drugs. What is a psychotherapist like? How does that differ?

[Karl]
Alright. There’s lots of different types of psychotherapists, but yeah. Psychiatry is a doctor, a medical doctor, you know, one of the proper doctors, not as fake doctors. A proper doctor who has then gone and done psychology, additional psychological training to become a psychiatrist.

Okay. A psychotherapist or a counselor is, so in my wife’s case, she did a degree in psychology and then she did a postgraduate master’s level diploma in counseling and psychotherapy. Now there’s a whole scale of different qualifications you can get as a psychotherapist from doing a weekend course or going right the way to doing a master’s degree and beyond.

Yeah. So that was my wife’s path. She did psychology and then she went on and did counseling, psychotherapy. And again, as there are different schools of thought with occlusion, there are different schools of thought within psychotherapy. So you have, Freudian Type psychotherapy.

You have, legend Carl Rogers, which is person-centered psychotherapy, which is sort of what my life’s original training was in the fundamental principle being, you know, nobody’s born evil, everybody’s born equal.

You don’t blame the person, the perpetrator of whatever it is. Or you don’t blame the person for having said feelings or phone things that, you know, it’s a consequence of the things that have happened to them and all of this which is one school of thought appropriate for helping some people.

There’s things like transactional analysis and all these different areas of psychotherapy. But yeah, Melissa’s training sort of originated in person-centered psychotherapy. But this sort of combination of me having these ups and downs and actually being quite open and free to talk about it because it’s something my wife and I talk about all the time we deal with all the time because of her line of work and in the middle of last year when Covid had hit and everybody was going, oh, it’s okay to not be okay.

And all of this was bouncing around the social sphere and everybody said, oh, it’s okay to not be okay. And then you go, well, everybody’s saying this, but no one’s actually saying they’re not okay. I was getting a bit, I was getting a bity. It was like, you know, everybody’s saying it’s okay to not be okay.

And maybe somebody reading that hashtag somewhere goes, okay, well actually I’m going to talk to my friend about this now. And that’s great. You know, you don’t have to do what I did, which is when you enter a particularly low dip, you write about it, you take a stupid photograph of yourself, and then you post a blog about it on Facebook, which is what I did.

And showing everything, look, this is what it looks like when I’m feeling down. Okay. And you cry and you’re upset, and you’re down and you’re hurt, and a lot of the time, for me it’s often a feeling of complete apathy, a complete sort of devoid of any emotions. And, you know, I’m going to put this out there because what people often in that situation do, is go, Hey, I’m great guys.

Come on, let’s go. And you beat yourself up and you get yourself back out there and you put this brave face on, and then you go home and cry yourself to sleep. And you go, right, well, this isn’t good. This isn’t right. This isn’t healthy. And what I realized was actually this cycle that I was in, I’m able to do something about it.

And I’m not saying everybody can, you know, there’s a whole myriad of mental health conditions that, you know, we’ve got to be aware of. But I realized there was this pattern to it. And, it almost for me was a case of a tick along. Okay. And I’d get quite busy and then I’d go, go, go, go, go.

And I’d basically burn myself out and have a mini burnout. Everything had shut down. I’d find it really hard to get outta bed. I’d find it really hard to get myself motivated to do anything. And then after a few days, my body would go right. We’ve hit reset. Now go again, but don’t do that again, Karl.

That was very naughty, and I realized, I sort of through my reflection, my personal reflection log, my journaling and things like this, I did, I sort of started to see this pattern and this, these conversations with my wife that I was having, I was thinking, you know what? I can do something about this.

So now when I’m getting to those points of seeing myself enter this little mania phase, right, stop, slow yourself down. And most of the time I can stop myself getting into that.

[Jaz]
Well done.

[Karl]
Now, well, yeah. But-

[Jaz]
I mean, I just want to just pause and say like, thank you for sharing this and putting yourself in a very vulnerable position.

And I’m sure everyone who’s listening on their commutes have just taken a moment and maybe just gone, whoa. Like to what you said, and I really respect that you’re sharing this with everyone because I think it needs to be heard. And thank you for telling us about your very real experiences and then from there stems this desire to help other dentists, as you’re going to say in terms of through ConfiDental. I mean, is that a service that you used before or is that?

[Karl]
So yeah, so let’s get back to the point, Karl. The point is, yeah. You know, not if I don’t say this, who’s going to? If somebody what I’d consider a relatively mild form of all of this going on, who talks about mental health things all the time at home with his wife and is married to a psychotherapist, somebody who can help people like this and who regularly helps people like this.

If I can’t talk about it, who’s going to, and maybe if I can talk about, then somebody else will have the strength and the confidence to come out and say, you know what, actually I’ve been struggling a bit and you know, you’re not going to shout this from Facebook or whatever the you want to do, you might go and talk to your wife, you might go and talk to your mom, your dad, your cousin, your friend, whoever it might be.

That talking helps. And for some people who don’t feel that they can talk to anyone or they’ve tried talking to people, because you know, I’m so, so lucky that I’m married to Marisa because Marisa knows exactly how to respond when somebody’s struggling. And when I say to Lisa, oh look, I’m really struggling ’em, she goes, okay, tell me more.

No judgment, no advice, no nothing. She just listens. And I mean, that’s invaluable. And what ConfiDental have set up this charity, they’ve set up this helpline. So you just phone it and you can just talk to someone and they listen and they’re there for-

[Jaz]
They don’t take any names, any GC numbers, or this is just there at the end the phone to speak to someone. They don’t even know your want to know your name or unless you want to relieve it, reel it or whatever. They’re just there to help you in a difficult situation.

[Karl]
I mean, exactly it. And they’re just there to support and they’re dentists who are volunteered and they’re just there to support you through whatever it is.

And you know, I was speaking with John Lewis, one of the founders of ConfiDental and you saying, you know, a lot of the time people are calling up about issues with patients, about concerns over the GDC about and those are our people calling about just the overwhelming sensation of an inability to cope with life.

And that gets people as well. Some people suffer with depression. Some people suffer with anxiety. Some people it’s imposter syndrome. There are all of these things. Some people it’s PTSD, you know? Traumatic experiences. And that can be a car crash, that can be witnessing a cardiac arrest in practice.

You know, it can have a profound effect on you. It could be somebody suing you and going through legal proceedings, that’s traumatic. And so ConfiDental has been set up to help dentists and dental professionals who need somebody to reach out to, to talk to. They don’t know where to turn.

As I say, I’ve been so lucky. I’ve never had to bring ConfiDental myself, but I’m married to a psychotherapist. I know I can say anything to Marisa and she will listen and not judge me. And you know what? That’s what you need. Sometimes you just need someone to go, oh, okay. Yeah. Jaz, that sounds like you’re having a really hard time.

Tell me more about it. And that’s what ConfiDental do. And, you know, in terms of signposting them ConfDental, you know, you’re going to put the website in the show notes. I know you’re going to put phone number in the show notes, but of course the phone number, phone number for anybody you, who is thinking, you know what, I need someone to talk to right now. It’s 0 3 3 9 8 7 5 1 5. There it is.

[Jaz]
That number again is?

[Karl]
0 3 3 9 8 7 5 1 5 8. But yeah, it’s there. It’s there. And the book that I’ve written is there to inspire some love for dentistry, inspire some passion for dentistry, but I don’t want it to be one of these toxic positivity things that come in.

I said, hey, look how fantastic this career is. You know, we should all love it all the time, because that’s not real. So there’s a whole chapter in there dedicated to mental health.

And that chapter’s got a lot of stuff about my story in there, about how I experience it. That’s not how anybody else experiences, it’s just how I experience it.

And it’s got a lot of stuff in about other mental health conditions, you know, some stuff. You know, small steps we can take, you know, there’s no single cure, we’re not completely powerless to this where there are things we can do to help ourselves. And there’s a lot of stuff in that chapter from my wife, from Marisa as well, you know, because I’m just a guy who gets down sometimes.

She deals with this stuff all the time. Yeah. And she’ll kill me for saying this, but she’s the expert on this. She really knows what she’s talking about. And there’s a lot of stuff in the book from her that I think will be immensely useful. Both to anybody who’s struggling with mental health issues or concerns.

They have, you know, you might not want em to lay yourself, have a mental health issue. You might just have concerns over your mental health. But it’ll, it’s immensely useful to anybody like that or anybody who’s in contact with anybody who’s struggling, anybody who, maybe your nurse is having a really hard time for one reason or another, and she comes to say, listen, Jaz, I’m really sorry.

I just, and then the eyes fill up and I just don’t, I’m really struggling. I don’t know what to do. And on having some level of understanding about what that’s all about and about how you can help somebody, I think’s really powerful. And so there’s a lot of that in the book as well.

And as you said, all the proceeds from the book, all the profits and everything is going to go to support ConfiDental. So it’s sort of all going to feed background to yourself. I hope you read the book and you’re less likely to need ConfiDental, but for those people who need it, any or every sale of the book, all the profits are going to go to confidential as well. And that’s-

[Jaz]
I would love you all listening, watching to show Karl support because he covers things such a beautiful way. And Ivan it is actually a really good writer. I know you don’t like to admit it. And you mentioned a few bits about your GCSE experience and whatnot, but you actually I do enjoy reading your blogs and you actually have got away with words.

So it’s great. And you made me laugh a few times as well. Actually, I’ll will put that in there for you. So, thank you. And thank you for making yourself vulnerable, Karl, on this podcast. I really appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. And I think it’s going to help a lot of people.

I remember recording the episode with Emma Courtney. Hi Emma. Hope you’re well in New Zealand. She’s a fellow Protruserati and, we talked about burnout and her experiences and like some of the messages Karl, I got after that episode, like this, this lady messaged me saying I had to just stop my car, park my car somewhere.

And I just had a cry because everything that Emma was saying was just describing her own experiences. And at that point, she realized, hang on a minute, I’m burning out. So if you are someone who’s really been emotionally affected by this episode, and I hope that can only be in a good way in terms of okay, we can identify who can help you, then please do make use of a ConfiDental, and I hope that this episode will be a stepping stone in the right direction for you.

And if you could consider buying Carl’s book to read more and reignite your passion, and to anyone who wants to support ConfiDental in a way through buying this book, even if it’s for a young dentist that you know, and you want to inspire them, please do so. Karl, thank you so much for giving your enthusiasm, your stories and your motivational words, and for making yourself vulnerable. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[Karl]
No, I mean, it’s okay to talk, but then people need to actually talk to make it okay to talk. And so, hey, there we go. I talked. I talked. So, yeah. I’m hoping the book is going to be out, at the start of 2022.

[Jaz]
And did you ever name, we keep calling it the book, but we don’t have a name yet.

[Karl]
Yeah. So the book, I’m pretty sure, I’m pretty sure the book is going to be called In the Loupe. Loupe as in-

[Jaz]
In the Loupe. Ah, I like it. So I like it.

[Karl]
Yeah. So I have a sucker for a player of words like you, with the Bit Between your Teeth. But, you know, in staying in the loupe, the secrets to build in yourself are a fulfilling career as a dentist, finding a passion for dentistry.

[Jaz]
I love it.

[Karl]
So anybody who wants to find out more, obviously sign up for updates about the book can go onto my Instagram, my Facebook, or on my website, my website, walkerfinch.com, or one word walkerfinch.com. And you can sign up on there, to get updates about the book.

[Jaz]
And read the blog post as well. They will keep you entertained and you get an idea of the reading style and what’s to come from the book.

[Karl]
Yeah. So I put a blog out once a week. Sometimes they’re short, sometimes they’re slightly less short, but yeah, no, it’s good to just get out there and hopefully, hopefully inspire a few more people just to think a bit more and reflect on what they’re doing and how they can build their own, you know, passion and each day and build it all a little bit stronger.

[Jaz]
Atomic Habits, my friend, atomic Habits, we have to do that episode. So I will be in touch. Yes, let’s get a date in the diary to do Atomic Habits as applied to clinical dentistry. We’ll maybe cover some big themes, some small themes. That’s going to be a really fun episode as well. Karl, thank you so much once again.

[Karl]
Thank you.

Jaz’s Outro:
Well, there we have it, guys, thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. Look, if you like the themes here and if you want to get a book or you want to get the book to gift it to a dentist that you know, who just needs to hear everything that we discuss and wants to have a paperback book that they can sort of follow along with and do some bedside reading that’s really going to work on their mindset, then check out In the Loupe.

I’ll put it in the show notes below. And of course, as always, don’t forget to rate the podcast on Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to. Thanks again, Karl. We appreciate you coming on. And for everyone else, I’ll catch you same time, same place next week.