Parenthood and Dentistry (Even if You’re Not a Parent!) – IC025

Jaz’s Introduction:
Hello, Protruserati. I’m Jaz Gulati and welcome back to the Protrusive Dental Podcast. This is an interference cast which is a non clinical interruption. For those who are listening, I don’t know if I sound different. For those who are watching, you’ll notice this crack on ceiling and my room looks very different. And where’s my background gone? Hi, I’m recording in my sister’s old bedroom in my parents place because Hardeep, our guest today who is a just a fantastic person. She’s a shining light in dentistry, she’s blossoming into this amazing voice for females in dentistry. And I brought her on to talk about parenthood in dentistry. It was so difficult to plan this date that it actually worked out that I’m recording not in my usual studio. So do excuse the acoustics and the video if it’s a bit different.

For those of you that know me parenthood is something that’s really important to me in my life. And I’m so happy to be sharing this episode with you guys. Even if you’re not a parent, and you never want to be a parent, I think there’s so much you can gain about our discussions at work life balance, like Hardeep maybe changed my thinking about it not being balance. It’s about work-life quality. So we discussed that towards the end. We talk about family planning and how especially for females and mothers to be, this could really change your career trajectory. And we kind of touched a little bit on why, perhaps, in dentistry, women in dentistry sometimes not get the spotlight they truly deserve especially when you look at the lecture circuit, there are many more male dentists on the lecture circuit despite there being more females in dentistry up and coming than males.

So motherhood may have something to do with that. The challenges, unique challenges like being mum is the most difficult job ever. I remember Lakshmi. Lakshmi kind of got the I know you’re listening to this. You’re one of the loyal Protruserati and you came to our live splint course day and we just talked about being mum and being a practice owner and how it poses such unique challenges. Now one thing I discussed in this episode with Hardeep is I have been like the broodiness guy ever, for the longest time, like it was a dream come true when I became a father. So this was an episode I was really looking forward to recording. And I think dentistry does pose some unique challenges. And some of the challenges that Hardeep talks about, like wow, her being three months into becoming a mother and having to go back to work to see a patient while her child who’s breastfed was being getting express milk upstairs by a nurse because this is the reality of women in dentistry. And I’ve seen that in the practice of our work where the dentists will come back from maternity leave to see, squeeze this private patient in for orthodontics. Like you know, if you’re in the middle of orthodontics, and you need to go on maternity leave, that becomes a little bit messy. So we tackle these really real world themes. And as a parent as a father in dentistry, with all the things I do clinical and non clinical. It’s a real challenge I do and I know Hardeep tries not to bring her work home with her. I feel as though me and probably you listening and watching to this and the Protruserati, you probably take your work home with you, you’re doing ClinCheck, you’re doing treatment plan that is, you’re doing courses, online courses, webinars, etc.

So it becomes really challenging to find that, probably I say work-life balance, but work-life quality, because that’s the main change in thinking that we explore in this episode. So I really hope you gain so much from this journey that me and Hardeep explore as well the unique challenges that parenthood poses to us as dentists. And so listen, and I’ll catch you in the outro.

Main Interview:

[Jaz]
Hardeep Basi, welcome to the Protrusive Dental Podcast. How are you?

[Hardeep]
I’m very well, thanks, Jaz. I’m excited. I’m excited to be here.

[Jaz]
I’m super excited. And, you know, I don’t know if you believe me or not, but I’m being deadly serious here. I have never been this pumped and exciting. I was telling my wife as well for an episode of Protrusive before even though I do so much clinical, this specific nonclinical episode, which is very close to my heart. I’m going to talk all about that today. Parenthood is such a beautiful, beautiful topic. And I remember sharing an Instagram story. Not too long ago. It was actually in March and then that’s just a testament to how a busy lady you are Hardeep, you’re so difficult to tie down. I’m so glad I finally got you on this Friday morning. I’m actually recording right now in my sister’s old bedroom in my parents place. You see a nice little crack in the Loft ceiling here. You see all this red and pink decor. It’s not me, it’s not my usual place. So I’m making an exception for you to make this happen because this is long overdue. Anyway, back to the story. I shared a story on Instagram, saying, Hey, I’m recording on Hardeep and someone message, who, whose name I now forget because it’s so long ago. And he said, wow Hardeep, I was in hospital placement when she did MaxFax something. Did you do MaxFax?

[Hardeep]
Yes, I did. That’s right.

[Jaz]
So he message me, he said ‘She was one of the sweetest people I ever met. She was very popular with the nurses. She wants to bring in food.’ I don’t know that you’re, Is that something you’re famous for?

[Hardeep]
Oh, yeah. Well, I used to bring in like sort of leftover dinner from the night before. I used to bring it on my mom’s curries and not feel guilty about eating them in the staff room? No, but I did share with others. Yes, yes.

[Jaz]
Amazing. Well, you had this reputation. And he said that he was really looking forward to this episode. So sorry, buddy. It was in March, and I’m not gonna go through my Instagram all the way to March. So thanks so much. And for that. And so you know, I’m really pumped for this. And just to give everyone a bit of context, Hardeep, I know, because her dad is the person whose practice I did my first ever work experience that when I was like 15, or 16. And then your brother and I were worried or at school, and I used to see him through dental school events as well. So and then I met Simran as well. So a real true family of dentistry. But for those who haven’t got the complete picture here, just tell us a little about yourself, Hardeep, what you do at the moment? And I always want to extrapolate the journey. Everyone’s journey, how has your journey been? You’re now in in Scotland, you’re a mother of one, tie into your personal life. But just tell us a bit about your professional journey.

[Hardeep]
Yeah, sure. First of all, thank you. Good morning to everyone and Jaz, what a gracious introduction. And I’m so, so delighted and honored to be invited onto your incredible podcast platform. You know, the fact that we’re here today, after arranging I think, somewhat three times is a huge achievement in itself. And so it’s all about getting the timing right. So Hartaaj started to nursery and I’m now able to fully focus on enjoying and having fun in this conversation with you. And yes, you know, you’re well connected to the, to our family, you know, I think for me, the journey has been, you know, people would think that I’ve come from a family of dentists, it’s been quite smooth and quite easy. And it’s quite the contrary, you know, obviously, I came into dentistry before I came into parenthood. So I’m coming into dentistry for me, it was a challenge in itself. And Jaz, you know, of my dad, he’s incredibly inspiring. He’s a humble gentleman, is a great educator, a mentor and a supportive

[Jaz]
Very much it’s very truly he is

[Hardeep]
Yes, so many colleagues in the profession. And I’m very, very lucky to have had parents who encouraged me to go down any path that I wanted to, and they would always insist that being a girl, I should never limit my dreams. And I’m always eternally grateful for that. And growing up, my dad devoted a significant amount of time to building the family dental practice, which was incidentally just down the road from our home. And I really enjoyed going to the dentist as a young girl and it wasn’t far for a start, you know, it’s swivel around on the chair in the surgery or at reception watching and listening and learning all the time. And, you know, built rapport and relationships with all the staff and the patients are like, and you know, on the odd occasion, I would sit the reception desk and cover it. And what really strike me though, while I was there was that I was inspired by how many female dentists are working in the practice, who had children as well. And taking all that into context with working alongside my dad and looking at what the dynamics of the practice were that he was building an inclusive practice of males and females, I set my sights on following in his footsteps and studying to be a dentist. And the journey to becoming a dentist in itself was challenging. And during my school years, I suffered a lot with bullying and harassment actually, and debilitating migraine attacks, which would incapacitate me for weeks. But this didn’t stop me, I kept focused on my education. And I achieved the grades that I needed to to get into dentistry. And I graduated in 2012, at the age of 24. And you know, being a young woman from humble beginnings in Hounslow to living independently that far from my family was really tough initially. But you know, I got my head down, and I graduated with distinction and finals. And I had a few academic prizes at graduation. And the reason I share that with you is because I worked so diligently and I was so focused on my career aspirations as a young, independent woman, that my desire to put that energy, effort and time and hard work was almost ingrained in my DNA. And don’t get me wrong. I did. I pursued hobbies at university. I was socializing with my peers and I was that girl who went out on a social night and I would still make that 9am lecture the following day. But yeah, in my mind,

[Jaz]
I can vouch for that from our meetings at BDSA.

[Hardeep]
And yeah, that stage in my life, I’d set my, I’d imagine this was my lifelong career, you know, clinical dentistry. And you know, university was a great place. You know, I when I met you at the conferences and things, you know, we made amazing friendships. And while I was at uni, I met Manreek, who was studying medicine at Edinburgh. And so, you know, university time was really the opportunity where, you know, I had a few part time jobs, I was studying really hard. And I was playing hard as well. So that’s when the juggling act sort of began. And then to explain a little bit more about my journey. When I left university, I entered the realm of clinical practice, I was still an energetic, ambitious, mature, although my siblings, my big two might disagree there. But my focus was channeled on attending courses, conferences, volunteering, networking, and just continuing to learn as much as I possibly could. And I’m glad I did that, then because looking back now as a mom, it’s quite different to be able to seek those opportunities and have those networking opportunities and be out and about. And after completing my VT year training in Edinburgh, I returned to London where I spent two years doing core trading posts at King’s College London and Queen Mary where I did oral surgery and maxfax in general duties. And, you know, I look back at that time in life. And I’m always grateful for the inspiring consultants, the peers from whom I learnt so so much from in those early years. And during those years, I sat my MFTs exams. And I was maintaining a long distance relationship with Manreek, but we made it work and then we married in 2015. And I settled into married life and I moved to Scotland. And, you know, obviously a new town, no friends,

[Jaz]
That’s why you’ve got this Scottish twang. Now I can definitely hear it. I mean, at record, you sound very different to the Hardeep I once knew.

[Hardeep]
You know, when I first started university, I was like, Girl from London with the Posh English accent. And then now I’m like, you know, so hybrid, there’s a wee bit of a twang. Yeah, you’re right. Jaz, there’s a wee bit of an accent comes through. But yeah, it was difficult, you know, because I was new town, no friends or finding a new job. And but you know, I had incredible support from my in laws, my family that I settled in with up here. And life was different, but it was so so pleasant Jaz. And I landed a job in general dental practice, which was fortunately, in comparison to my SHO jobs. The commute was only 15 minutes. And this was ideal, you know, for me. And yeah, clinical practice was going really, really well. And I was building my self esteem and confidence until one day I got a patient complaint. And I don’t know about you Jaz. Have you had a complaint?

[Jaz]
I mean, I’ve had my fair share of near misses, but hasn’t been so bad. So are you happy to share just a little bit of about how that affected you? What happened?

[Hardeep]
Yes, absolutely. I think it’s really important to be open and sort of transparent about these because, there is a stigma attached about talking about things that don’t go so well in clinical practice, you know, and I’m more than happy to share that, you know, the mental trauma of going through that tough time. You know, it took a real negative emotional, mental, physical impact on me. And it was actually a turning point in my clinical career where it made me question whether I really wanted to continue with clinical dentistry. And I know to some that might sound really irrational, but it was a thought that crossed my mind. And, you know,

[Jaz]
I don’t think so Hardeep, I don’t think so at all. I don’t think that’s irrational at all. Like even all the near misses I have, even like the restorative failures that I get that don’t lead to any complaints and the patient’s very understanding, right, and I bring the patient in and fix it even just the other day, I was a bit ambitious with the Zirconia Resin bonded bridge, and I wasn’t happy with the connector with but I still fit it. And then the pontic snapped off. And so, you know, that still has a potential to give me a sleepless night. And then I still, you know, despite how passionate I am, I still have those thoughts like, oh, man, I hate these failures. Is this really what I want to do? So everyone gets those thoughts, especially when they experienced failure, or I guess heightened even more so when you have something as stressful as a patient complaint. So I don’t think it’s irrational at all. I think it’s very much normal to have those thoughts.

[Hardeep]
Yeah. And Jaz the sort of difficult part of it was that I didn’t feel fully supported. Yes, we have our indemnity, but it was an experience that I know so many of us feel like we go through alone. And for me, fortunately, the complaint was resolved amicably. Right. And it wasn’t as significant but the fear of that litigation, the fact that it was going to allow it to destroy my drive and my determination and passion because of one negative interaction over all the positive patient interactions I’d had up until that point And so, you know, it was really, really tough. And then to compound on top of that I had a horrific car accident in June 2017. And without going into detail, I was so lucky that I survived because my car was written off. And, you know, I suppose up until this point, the experiences I had made me reflect on life, about, you know, up until this point, I’ve been so focused on a career, that what did I want out of life that I wanted to live fearlessly? And I wanted to live it fully in my potential, because you just never know how short it is. And, you know, Dentistry was my life. But you know, as a young married woman with that passion for the profession, but these are life events that were happening to me made me question whether it was really for me, and I was overcome with anxiety. But you know what, there was a reason for this all happening to me, and life was happening for me at this point, it was a realization, it was a time where I knew there was a deeper purpose in me, and I had a desire that I wanted to start a family. And, you know, my faith has always been a solid anchor, you know, my self belief. And I started reading around a lot of personal development, listening to podcasts, rebuilding my energy and my focus and surrounding myself with supportive positive people, so that I could really unleash that potential in me. And, you know, Jaz, things happen according to the divine timing. I really, truly believe that. And after my brother’s epic wedding festivities in India, we went to Amritsar and we went to the Golden Temple. And there I prayed so deeply for a child. And six weeks later, I found out I was pregnant. And it was just the most incredible moment in my life. And the sheer joy of becoming a mother filled my heart with so much excitement. You know, I thought, you know, getting into dentistry and

[Jaz]
Is that something that you always wanted to do? Were you always a broody? Because I can tell you now, like, I don’t know, or is a man allowed to be broody? Is that the right term for a man but I’ve always wanted to be a father. So for me, though, all those comments you said there about how it made you feel and stuff like when I saw those two lines on my wife’s test, like, I’ve got a photo of me, like, almost like just so emotional, and charged and happy and stuff. And it’s been the best thing that’s ever happened in my life. And I’m sure you can talk about that. But also talk about the challenges and how it affects our profession stuff. But yeah, I definitely share your sentiments.

[Hardeep]
Yeah, absolutely, Jaz, you know, like, I grew up in a big family, I had lots of surrounded by lots of cousins, you know. And so, having a family of my own one day was definitely an aspiration. But the timing of it, you know, it’s always something that culturally and socially conditioned, were thought to believe that things need to happen at a certain age, and you know, all that sort of stuff. But, you know, for me, I was at the age of 30. And it for me, it didn’t matter about the age, it mattered just about the stage of life that I was at, and I was ready to take on this new challenge. And, you know, I thought the journey of getting into dentistry, my career was challenging, I was in for a real treat, when it takes eight years to get into some sort of stability in the dental career. And it takes nine months to become a mother, you know, through that whole journey of pregnancy. But fast forwarding all of that, and when our baby boy arrived, it was

[Jaz]
Hardeep, I just gonna stop you there one more, because I just want to pick on two small aspects that was gonna so in case anyone in case you missed it, when you were listening, guys, one little thing, which you know, might be missing passing is that you said how you did so many courses early on. And then you did actually touch on the fact that actually now as a mother, you couldn’t imagine doing that. And I feel the same that I’m so glad I did so much of my education on the front end, so that now I choose quality over quantity, whereas before it was, like, get quality and lots of quantity to see what’s out there in the real world dentistry to expose myself. And as a parent, I definitely as now a learner, avid learner as an educator now as well, finding the time that’s why I do a lot of my stuff online because I can make more time for my son. So that’s a thing just worth mentioning to anyone listening that okay, if you’re a position where you’re not thinking about children, but you might like to have a family one day, then how is your career gonna kind of map out and then on a similar vein, my main question for you now is before taking the plunge into motherhood before family planning, did you and I don’t know if you’ve spoken to other mothers in dentistry, Were you nervous about how this might affect your career progression? Because one of the themes I want to, it was actually last question was asked you is we see so many people at the top of field who are male, we see so many lectures, I look at conference programs, male, male, male male, you see one female. And I feel as though a lot of the high positions in dentistry are occupied unfavorably or to bias towards male. And I feel as though perhaps this has all got something to do with it. So, how do you feel? How did you feel the time about this would affect your careers? That’s something that you thought about?

[Hardeep]
Yeah, I mean, absolutely, Jaz. You know, I think this advice would have been really helpful while I was at university, you know, to give people that advice at an earlier age, you know, things will happen when they happen for you And when you decide that you’d like to do things, but I think going on courses and pursuing your career aspirations, do that as early on as you can, while it’s all fresh in your knowledge, and you’re building on a good foundation from University. And I think coming out of university, I realized when I went into the real world of clinical dentistry, how much I didn’t know. And so yeah, I would absolutely advocate for doing things now, and not procrastinating on those choices. And family planning is really important as well, you know, I didn’t have those sort of conversations with people earlier on I just, for me, it was a turning point in my life where I had to go through such adversity and such challenge and then decide, actually, I was so tunnel vision focused on dentistry, but I lost sight of other things. And Hartaaj wasn’t actually, it wasn’t actually planned in that way. You know, as to right, I’m at this stage in my career, you know, now’s the right time, it was other things that made that gave me that realization. And I think for me, you know, it’s quite interesting because I was having this conversation with Manreek the other day, and he said, and I said, I think I’d been on more courses before I had Hartaaj. And he actually looked at me and said, No, I think it’s the other way around, I think you’ve been on more courses since you had him. And I thought, Well, maybe it’s to get a break from both of you then. And, you know, it’s different, there’s a lot of shifts that happen, Jaz, you know, when you become a mother, and I can talk from that perspective, you know, I have this wonderful life changing experience of becoming a mum to Hartaaj, who’s now three, even though I do introduce him as 3 going on 13. And it’s the greatest thing, but it’s also the hardest thing being a mum, because there is this, there’s this shift in your identity. And, you know, the amount of learning that happens when, you know, a child is born, but so too, is a mother or in your case, as well as a father. And so for me, the sort of key challenges that I had, when I came into motherhood. And also, you know, in keeping in line with my sort of career aspirations was that when I returned back to work, after nine months, so I took nine months of maternity leave, I was so anxious Jaz, I was stressed, I had this fear of letting go, this separation anxiety, when I would drop him to nursery, we would be bawling our eyes out, you know, that I’ve spent nine months with him, he’s been in my arms, he’s been spending a lot of time with me, there is that sort of emotional connection that you have and that attachment. And then to sort of hand him over to somebody else who effectively is a stranger, you know, you don’t know the nursery staff, you know, you know they’re there to take care of your child, but you don’t know them. They’re not like a family member. They’re not you. And I think for me, it was just all the emotions, I didn’t know what I was feeling, I didn’t know that this was normal, I and I became overwhelmed with the emotion of that sort of unhealthy attachment. So separation anxiety, is a very real emotional feeling. And for me to kind of come through that, you know, to grow through that, because, you know, it was there for a long time, you know, Hartaaj cried for every single day for 18 months before he turned a corner and actually had a smile on his face going into nursery. And, you know, for me, it was about managing, getting the help and support to help manage those feelings, that it was valid to feel that way. And it was an accepted part of being a mother or a parent, and leaving your child in the hands of someone else while you know you go to work. So, you know, it’s it’s very normal to feel that. And I think it’s really important to acknowledge it, to know that you’re not alone in feeling it and that you can get the help and support you need to manage that feeling. And so, that’s the beauty of it is that you go through that, to know that you become stronger. And then now you know it’s wonderful, dropping him off to nursery, going off to work, grabbing a coffee from the drive thru on the way and listening to a podcast, you know, just enjoying that time without feeling guilty. About that’s really what it means to me.

[Jaz]
You know what that reminds me of? I just thought, I have to it to mention this as a book called, you probably familiar with it. The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. Very highly referenced, you’ve probably read it, I imagine,

[Hardeep]
Yes, I have read it.

[Jaz]
One of the first chapters talk about what it is that you channel your focus to. So we have many dentists who are very much focused on their careers, their everything in their life is about my identity is a dentist Now, if that gets taken away from them, then their life is over. That’s it. And then on the other end, you have people who are spouse centered, or children centered, so everything in their life revolves around their children. And then, you know, when they’re 18, or whatever, they felt the mess, and suddenly their life has no meaning anymore. And so what Stephen Covey argues is that we shouldn’t be centered around any of those things. We should be values centered, so I’m always having this discussion, my wife, I’m saying to Sim, Look, I know we love Ishaan, he’s the world to us. But you know, everything in our world shouldn’t revolve around just him. He’s very important part of our life, but it should be revolve around our values. And he is very much part of that. But he is not the sole thing. And there’s something that I think is worth mentioning, would you say?

[Hardeep]
Absolutely, Jaz couldn’t agree more. And I think, you know, the conversation about knowing what matters to you as a person first and foremost, you know, I think a lot of the time what happens is that, and coming into motherhood, before that, my responsibility was me and my career. And then he came along, and obviously, you’ve got your relationship as well. And it’s about your value system and quality of time in life, you know, how do you choose, as a family to spend time together to make that time that devoted, you know, no distraction time together, and also then be able to manage your work commitments and pursue your career aspirations? Because somebody like me, has realized that they are, you know, passionate about dentistry and specifically leadership in dentistry. And, you know, you’re absolutely right, it comes down to your why, you know, why are you doing these things? You know, what are the barriers,

[Jaz]
So it’s essentially to children, our children, anyone listening, who’s a parent or wanting to become a parent, we love our children. But I think the message here is, our children probably shouldn’t become our why because then you’re attaching your entire center of everything to an individual person. And you know, if you had an argument, that person when they’re a bit older, and that’s it, your whole world turned upside down. It should be very much centered around you and your values. That’s essentially the book says, Would you agree with that?

[Hardeep]
Absolutely. Yes, you come first, as selfish as that can sound to some people, it is absolutely necessary to set out why you’re, you know, absolutely Jaz, you know, what matters to you as a person? What do you value in your life? And of course, we value relationships, family, work. But you know, as part of all of that as well, Are you giving yourself enough time to look after you, wholeheartedly? Are you filling your cup with a lot of self care? And self care isn’t, you know, that sort of all around the sort of fluffy stuff. It’s really unraveling your thoughts, your processes, your, it’s messy, it’s hard work, you know, it’s understanding the barriers that are keeping you stuck from unleashing your full potential. So absolutely, first and foremost, you need to tap into, what it is that matters to you? What do you value in life?

[Jaz]
I’m gonna switch it up. I’m gonna just talk about very specifically in our niche in dentistry, what do you think are the unique challenges that we have? Very much the meat of this episode? Like, you know, fine, you know, a lawyer could be discussing with another lawyer about the unique challenges that lawyers have with being parents. So what do you think are the unique challenges that that dentists might have? As a role as a, you know, wearing the hat of a dentist, but also wearing the hat of a parent? Can you can you think of any I’ve got one to share with you, but anything that you’ve experienced as a mother especially?

[Hardeep]
Yeah, I think, Jaz, for me, I’ve kind of alluded on it, but coming back from maternity leave, back into dentistry as a mom with a new sort of, you know, role and responsibility. For me, it was the lack of support when I came back. And, you know, it was quite sad to just see that, you know, you’re just expected to throw yourself back into it, with no sort of additional support. And, you know, there were so many changes that happened, because, you know, I was full time before I had Hartaaj, and then I came back and I was part time, I had to obviously reconsider my working hours and my working patterns. You know, there are so so many challenges. I could spend an entire day talking about this. And I made a list of about 25 unique challenges to particularly mothers in dentistry and things that I’ve experienced. I remember

[Jaz]
Just go for it, real amount, just to spend a little bit of time just to go for it. Let’s hear it.

[Hardeep]
Yeah. You know, I remember Jaz. I had a few sort of ortho patients before I went on maternity leave, right. And I still remember, he was only three months old, and I had to go back into practice. These were private patients. I had to go back into practice while I was breastfeeding, and sort of look after these patients and that stress, you know, luckily, I had, you know, a really nice supportive team at work. You know, I remember one of the nurses holding, you know, Hartaaj upstairs in the staff room and giving him sort of express breast milk. And I’m downstairs in the clinic treating this, you know, this patient. And, yeah, that in itself was a huge challenge. Like, how did I do that? You know, taking him with me to practice.

[Jaz]
Oh, my goodness

[Hardeep]
All a lot going on. And I think it’s just so overlooked. And, you know, then you have the guilt, the feelings of guilt, you know, are you coming back to work too soon? Putting your child in nursery, what’s too early? What’s too late? You know, you’ve got to think about your working hours. Your, you know, especially in the evening, if you’ve got no childcare, how late can you work? You know, your career progression, you’ve taken a break from clinical dentistry, when you return and you’ve got this feelings of being good enough, but your clinical work, you’ve got, you know, the impostor syndrome in dentistry.

[Jaz]
I get those thoughts when I’ve been on like, a one week off holiday, and I come back, and I feel okay, oh, my goodness, I’m so rusty in my decision making in my precision, I can only imagine after a maternity leave, and whatnot. Absolutely.

[Hardeep]
It’s crazy. And, you know, a lot of people do sort of just dismiss it as when you go back, you’re just all come back to you. But it takes time Jaz, and you need people around you, you need to be able to speak to people and share these concerns and struggles with them, you know, you’re coming back to work, you’ve got broken sleep, and I’m sure you experienced that too as a father, you know, if you’re sharing that sort of responsibility, looking after your child, you’re coming back to work not fully alert. And you know, then you’ve got this sort of mad rush in the mornings dropping the children to nursery or school or what have you. And have you had breakfast, you know, have you eaten something? Have you fulfilled your basic needs? You know, it’s and then you’ve got the element of, you know, if your child is sick, you know, you’ve got to leave work, you know, what’s the contingency? What are the measures for this? that consideration

[Jaz]
I just want to talk about that. So my wife works in community, I’m in private practice, so she’s salaried, I’m not and therefore, if Ishaan’s sick, then it’s going to be her. And it’s always unfair. It’s always unfair on her and the trust that it has to be her. Because I’m the one who’s private and you know, why does it work like that? It just, it is just makes sense. Right? The person who’s salaried takes at least a day off, it’s just the way it works out. But you know, lots of women in private practice A) The whole maternity pay situation is something we may touch on, that’s very complex, but B) you know, if your child is sick, you know, there’s no replacement for Mum. Mum is mum. That’s why I think motherhood poses such unique challenges to tell, challenge in a good way that you know, it’s such a beautiful challenge that you embrace. But Mom is mom and motherhood is a, mother is the most difficult hat to wear as a dentist. And that just highlights some of the issues like what if your child is sick?

[Hardeep]
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. You know, they have this strong desire, you know, ‘when I’m sick, when I’m ill, I want Mum’, you know, that’s how I want to be around. And it’s that phase of, you know, that sort of attachment that happens and you can’t just, you know, working you’re busy NHS practice with all those sort of considerations, you know, rebooking patients and things like that, it’s tough going to get your head around. And you know, when you finish your nine to five job, you’ve then got your five to nine job, you know, your dinner, the dishes, the bedtime routines, all of that. So it’s really hard going and I think, that can’t be overlooked or underestimated by, you know, there needs to be more support for mums returning back to work. And I feel like that is one of the biggest challenges, you know, that sort of holding somebody’s hand and saying, Look, I’m here with you, I hear you, how can I help you. And that is something that I’m so passionate about, which is one of the reasons why I started which was back then the dental motherhood, and is now the ‘Lead Her’. And we’ll talk about that in a little bit but..

[Jaz]
I’ll just bring that into actually, because I’ve seen so much of your stuff on Instagram and how passionate you are about this. So just tell us because you are essentially fulfilling the role that you wish you had in those stages where you felt maybe isolated that you felt you need support, you want to be that support to amplify the voice of females in dentistry, which is a beautiful thing to aim for. And also motherhood being part of that as well. So tell us a little bit more about ‘Lead Her’ What beautiful name.

[Hardeep]
Yeah, thank you, Jaz. So yeah, originally it was the dental motherhood. And the reason for that starting under that umbrella term was because on the back of as you say, you know, my struggles, my anxiety, returning to work, first time mom, and also passionate about dentistry and my career aspirations in that field. So I set the group up to really provide an online community a space so I created that space which was never there. And to bring together a community where we can have connection, we can have collaboration, and we can really share quite transparently and quite often honestly and anonymously if you wish, your struggles and provide that support network, which I think is so important, just to know that you have a platform to share, and to get support is so pivotal. And I think, you know, once I did the dental motherhood, and it started to gain some traction, I then decided what, you know, why am I restricting this to just dentistry? You know, there’ll be, and this also came on the back of my clinical leadership fellow post that I did that, you know, I was with medical professionals, and mothers and pharmacy fellows who were mothers, and, you know, I decided, you know, let me broaden this out, let me expand it so that more women can come in. And you know, it’s not just for mums, it’s for any female out there in any field. You know, it’s about empowering, supporting, sharing knowledge and information, because I’ve been through those tough times. And if I can be there to support in any measure or capacity, then I will do that. And it’s growing. It’s a growing community. And it’s lovely, it’s a wonderful feeling. And we have so many exciting things going on in that group. Slow and steady, because obviously, I’m trying to find that, you know, time to be able to do it. But yeah, it’s brilliant. It’s really, really amazing.

[Jaz]
How, how do we connect? How do we connect with that? What’s the first step like, you know, you’ve inspired someone listening today and she would like to come on and connect with you and learn more about how to empower herself as a female in dentistry or beyond, because this podcast has got more more reach now, how is the best way for them to connect?

[Hardeep]
So it’s through Facebook, so it’s a Facebook group called Lead Her so it’s lead dot her, and you can join the Facebook group, and there are, the community is growing, there are ideas that I’m coming up with, as time goes on, you know, we’re going to be starting a book club, which is very exciting. And that will be a great way to learn and to get to know each other. And then I have organized retreats, which are luxury retreats for women to come away from their sort of comfort zone and experience new surroundings, with new people, and, you know, epic experiences and activities. And on those retreats, there is learning there are leadership masterclasses, where I impart some of the knowledge and wisdom that I have, and tools and strategies and techniques that have really helped me to grow into being confident, feeling empowered, and feeling happier in life in being a dentist and a mom. So, you know, it’s a great community, and I would love as many to come in and join because I think there’s real value in that

[Jaz]
And I love your social media, Hardeep, it’s such a positive voice in dentistry. And you’re such a wonderful leader in what you’re doing in the moment. And I wish you all the best success with this So ladies, if you’re listening in particular, it for lead her is resonating with you, I think you should with every every female listening to this, you should definitely reach out, check out what they’re all the ideas that Hardeep has, and it’s only gonna grow you as a person. So thanks so much for sharing that I just want to bring you on to highlight and put a spotlight on lead her which I again, I can’t get over how awesome the name is, I can’t believe you own that. That’s amazing. Tell us about your work life balance as it is now. In the stage of life, you know,Hartaaj is three, my son also, Ishaan’s gonna be three next week. So tell us about your struggles, your goals, who would work life balance? Is it elusive? Does it exist?

[Hardeep]
I love this. You know, I love this topic. And I could spend a good few days talking about this and I do share quite powerful information about this on the Lead her retreats. And you know what Jaz, the word ‘balance, right, recently, I had some conversations with some colleagues about this and friends in dentistry who coincidentally are mothers but also that aren’t. And we debated the word balance, because balance is sort of defined as a stable mental, emotional and psychological state. And what we were thinking was, you know, a better word, a better term to use is quality. Quality over balance, because balance implies that everything is in a controlled state and certain state and the equilibrium, but the reality is we live in uncertain times, and adversity and things are changing all the time. So the idea of achieving balance almost seems quite unrealistic. So what we feel is that and what I feel particularly as well is looking at the quality of personal and professional life, knowing that that quality will vary from day to day, it will be different in your health and your sickness and under different circumstances. But as long as you’re giving your best, and that will be different day to day. The quality can improve and as long as you’re focused on being better, and being kind to yourself along the way. You know, for me that that’s what it stands for. And, and you know, I’ll share my perspective terms and these are just my personal thoughts they will be different to you know, my parents and friends alike. But your quality of life, work life is different for each and every one of us. And for me, it comes down to again, what we already touched on is my why and my values, you know, why do I do things the way I do? What do I enjoy doing? What lights me up? What is my purpose here, and you know, becoming a first time mom, it was a tough ride, I had no one, give me a manual, give me some advice or anything like that, you know, my mom did impart some great wisdom with me. And having raised four children herself, you know, I saw how she did it. But it is a roller coaster of emotions. And, you know, with me having experienced burnout, overwhelm, anxiety, guilt imposter, I can relate to how many of my female colleagues, and especially working moms feel because I’ve been there. But I’ve come out the other end with now a solid toolkit that I can tap into whenever I need. And we need our quality of personal and professional life to be a daily practice like that self care has to be disciplined daily practice at home and at work. And I’ll focus, you know, for the benefit this podcast, I want to focus on the positive reflections, because I’ve grown massively, just in this last year, there’s been a huge amount of self awareness. And unraveling and unpacking all the messy thoughts and things that are going on and gaining a deeper understanding of standing of my values, my needs, my aspirations to live happily, in both my career and at home. And for me, it needs to be achievable. And it needs to be about taking the time to reflect on how you want to lead in your life, you know, taking control of the choices that you can make. And for me, it’s about optimizing your mental and physical health and well being every single day both at work and at home. And it does come down to how you use your time to really focus on how you spend it, because it’s the most valuable asset we have, it keeps going. And it’s the currency, we have to get what we want out of our one life, our one conscious life. So for me that a good quality work life balance is about being happy. It’s about being healthy, it’s about leading life on your terms. And, you know, even when things get tough, they do get tough, but you have tools to help you thrive not just survive. And so for me, it’s about prioritizing, it’s about my primary focus to make it to have that sort of good quality life is personal health. And there’s no substitute for health, you know, positive healthy habits that you can do at work and I don’t know if you’ve read the book, Atomic Habits by James Clear, but you know, your habits

[Jaz]
Audio book are my way through at the moment.

[Hardeep]
Yeah, it’s a fantastic book, right. And he, you know, he talks quite about it being that, you know, these habits that we have in our personal life and our professional life need to be obviously need to be attractive, they need to be easy, and they need to be satisfying. And so for me, I prioritize things like sleep, you know, it’s a necessity, you know, worry thrives on a tired mind. So, I do some meditate, I do some meditations before bed, I do some light gentle exercises, and you know, we try and distract, take away all the electronic devices, at least an hour before bed. For me also a good quality of life and hygiene,

[Jaz]
Sleep hygiene

[Hardeep]
Sleep hygiene, exactly. And doing that sort of daily physical exercise as well, you know, making time in at home and at work to do some daily physical exercise. So I have a personal health coach who educates me on good dietary habits, you know, taking supplements, I have vitamin D sitting on my desk, discussing nutritional needs, and he has actually given me a tailored need a lot. Where, you know, he’s given me really, really, you know, a bespoke fitness plan where 5 to 10 minute bursts of physical activity such as squats, squats, and lunges between patients is enough, you know, we don’t, as working mums, I don’t have an hour that I can spend in the gym. But I have 5-10 minutes between patients that I can do some squats and lunges or 5-10 minutes at home between, you know, while the kettles boiling or whatever I’m doing to do that regular sort of physical exercise. And, you know, I think he’s also you know, at lunchtime, I always go for a walk, whatever the weather, it’s so refreshing to get away from those four walls. And, you know, I can’t emphasize that enough and I’m trying to get people at work now to come and join me on these walks because often the default is let’s go into the staff room and you know, chat about cases or patients or you know, whatnot, but actually getting outside in fresh air is great for that quality of life. And also, you know, Jaz, having time for your relationships, you know, you can get so consumed with work or home and kind of lose track of your relationships. So I schedule, Manreek and I schedule some time to go for a breakfast date or a dinner date. And we’ll do that while Hartaaj is in nursery on a Tuesday morning. So having that sort of communication and enjoy

[Jaz]
Even in couples, who are friends of ours who don’t have children. And then I know that, for example, a couple of friends of mine, who were both doctors, no children, and they just tell me how difficult it is to see each other, like they both are busy GPs, and then have very active lives in terms of sports and stuff. And then they have to make time for each other is difficult. And it becomes even more difficult as a parent. So you have to do life design, you have to design your life, to actually put that in the diary as a recurring event, which as lame as it sounds like you’re so so sad that in, you know, in 2022, we have to diarize time with your other half, but you do in a way, otherwise, you just leave it to chance. And then other things take priority to have that dedicated space, where you’re going to give yourself to someone else for that time and their undivided attention and to nurture that relationship is so important.

[Hardeep]
Absolutely. And you know what they also, you know, for example, Hartaaj gets to spend quality time with his grandparents, you know, for an afternoon a week, and sometimes more. So it’s great while you’re, you need to consolidate and build on those relationships that you have, otherwise they do challenges do come in between that. And in terms of work commitments, you know, I keep my clinical commitments, I work three days a week, I’ve now dropped to two at the moment. And while I’m currently on this Leadership Fellow, which is half my working week, and you know, my full clinic days coincide with the days that Hartaaj has full time in nursery. So you have to sort of work around your personal circumstances and you know, Manreek’s working four days a week, and then he has a Tuesday off with Hartaaj. So he’s got his day with him and his commitment with him in the afternoon. So there’s lots of things that come into play. And obviously, for me, out of my working hours, I’ve dedicate time for leadership, coaching, developing lead her organizing retreats, I’m constantly reading books on self improvement and leadership. And you know, all of it is learning, you’re gonna make mistakes along the way. And sometimes I feel like, Oh, I haven’t spent enough time with, you know, Hartaaj or I haven’t spent enough time with Manreek, even though we did have a breakfast date, whatever it was, you know, or I missed out on family dinners, you know, things like that. It does happen. But it’s all learning at the end of the day, and it all comes down to your boundaries, you know, at work and at home. You know, I try not to bring work home, I consciously decide at work, there is no such thing as procrastination, if I do my notes, and I don’t try, I don’t try to have any sort of access at home to do any clinical notes. I don’t do it, we don’t I don’t do it. I do what I can, if I have to add another 5-10 minutes on to the day, I’ll do it. Of course, sometimes, realistically, some things do need to come home, like I’m doing some Invisalign planning case planning at home, or, you know, whatever it is, but I also learned to say no to things, you know, what am I saying Yes, to all the time that I should be saying no to, and realizing that I can’t do everything, and I can’t please everybody that I’ve got a level of autonomy, and I need to make decisions, you know, it might be at home deciding No, I’m not going to do the ironing today, because, you know, I want to play with Hartaaj for a couple of hours. Or no, I’m not gonna go tonight, we’re gonna get a takeaway, because, you know, I want to, you know, spend time doing some work, you know, it’s whatever really suits you. But it’s that ability to create those boundaries. And if you don’t, it can be quite disruptive to your day to day living. And I think, you know, it’s about being organized and having some structure, but also, you know, being quite spontaneous and picking out time to just, you know, have fun and go on a little adventure outside and just, you know, switch off and not everything needs to be so regimental and routined, you know, apart from obviously, when I’m organizing to go on courses and conferences, that also requires some, you know, structure, but it’s really important Jaz, I think, to get a good quality of life, both in a personal and professional sense. You need to have support. And I think that’s, we’re very grateful that we have family close by and friends that we ask for help. And there’s no, you know, I’m so so grateful for that. And there is no, you know, as cliche as it sounds, you do become the average of the people that you spend the most amount of time around. So it’s really about deciding what kind of life you will carefully selecting the people who will help you live that life, right, both in your personal and professional circles, and learning from each other. And I think also for me, what’s really important is that I spend time with positive people because energy’s really important to me and their personality characteristics rub off on me, you know, you start to grow together. And with Hartaaj as a mom, that quality time that I focused with him, I removed distractions, I silenced notifications, I sit with him. And I asked him what you’d like to do. And I think just giving that dedicated time to build that attention, connection and love, the present is more powerful than anything, you know, we sing songs together, we read, we draw, we color, we snuggle up and watch a movie, we’ll go outside and kick the football around, whatever it is. But, you know, as they say,

[Jaz]
I’m very much the same, it’s all about undivided, it’s quality, you know, in your quantity is great. And we can have it when you have a week off and you spend X time together. But when that, you know, when he’s gone to nursery, I’ve come to work come home, it’s about everything has to go, it’s all about Ishaan for that one hour and to really fulfill my role as a father and I get so much enjoyment and fulfillment and energy from that base about at that point, if I’m not replying on Instagram, whatnot, is because I’m busy and with Ishaan, and there is a place to that if I’m constantly multitasking, and I’m giving some of my time to Ishaan and some my time to Instagram or whatever, it’s just not going to work. So I definitely agree with that.

[Hardeep]
Absolutely. And I think also, well, you mentioned, you know, disconnecting from social media, because it can be, you know, really overwhelming, you know, all these sort of messages and replies and things that you’ve got. And people do generally post and I aren’t guilty of this, I post a lot of positive good stuff, right. And I do also share struggles and, you know, mistakes along the way, because it’s an important platform for learning. But I think it’s so important to be able to decide I’m going to switch off. And also if it’s not playing with him or doing things with him, I like to have time for me, I like to be alone, you know, and have some time to really ground myself go and do things that fulfill me whatever that might be. You know, whether it’s booking a massage, or going away on a retreat with some other incredible women, you know, I think we really, really need to give ourselves that, to have a good quality of life, which I think between personal life, your home life and work life, you are in control of that quality. And, you know, I try to live in the moment, in the present

[Jaz]
A huge learning point from this podcast for me Hardeep is I’m removing the word balance now it’s no longer work life balance. It’s work life quality, I really as lasting sentiment, that’s such a wonderful thing that you shared. And definitely, I agree so much with that. And yeah, balance, I agree, there’s no such thing as balance, it’s impossible to achieve, I think, I think you always one or the other, and then things just bounce out. But it’s all about quality, focus on quality. So that is something that resonated very much with me.

[Hardeep]
And Jaz also, you know, like, I think we just really need to a lot of us worry about tomorrow, five years, and worrying about tomorrow really robs you of the joy of today. So it’s about being present, you know, it’s okay to plan for the future. But to live there, you know, live in the present moment, enjoy the precious time that we have now. Make it a value. And I think that is so so important to really understand that and I think, you know, you really can have it as a female leader in our profession if you want it if that’s what you desire. And, you know, if you choose to believe I think dentistry is a great profession for women with families and without, you know, do pleats fall as I’m performing my course they do, but the show must go on and I keep showing up, I keep learning and I keep being inspired. And then it’s my duty as well to share it and support others along the way you know, each one teach one and you know when you make it to that point when you’re there at that point in your journey, it’s your duty to look back and help the person behind you and I firmly believe that and yeah, so we need to focus on

[Jaz]
I definitely think you’ve helped a lot of people who listened and watched today. I’ve gained so much I think this episode is an essential like listen or watch for anyone in dentistry, whether you have a family or not, but especially if you are female I think the things you covered with lead her and things you’re doing I want this to reach every single female dentists I want everyone who’s thinking about children the future of family planning to to listen to this episode, I think we’ve covered so much ground and I’ve had a really lovely time and I knew there was a reason I was looking forward to this and you have absolutely lived up and they exceeded that expectation. Hardeep, thank you so much for making time for this and finally made it happen. And I’m gonna get one to I’m gonna put the link to your Facebook group or just instructions how to find it, you know, down below on the show notes so everyone can find that. And yeah, I mean, I really appreciate you making time for this.

[Hardeep]
Thank you so much Jaz. It has been an absolute privilege and an honor and you know, I’ve got while I’m on this platform, I’d like to share a little bit about the retreat that’s coming up if anyone is interested in coming and joining us. So the Lead Her retreat is in September on the date of the 23rd to the 25th of September. So it’s a Friday to a Sunday. And it’s really there for you to have quality time and space out for you away from your family in a stunning luxury resort in Scotland. And it’s a really unique opportunity to enjoy epic experiences, and connect with other amazing, amazing, wonderful women. And it will allow you to relax and recharge and learn really, really powerful leadership skills that you can employ into your personal and professional life. And if you’re interested, get in touch with me through the lead her Facebook group. Alternatively, in Jaz can share some contact information about me, I’d be happy for you to reach out by email or text. So yeah, it’s an experience.

[Jaz]
I’m really upset, Hardeep

[Hardeep]
You want to come, Jaz?

[Jaz]
Really? Well, no, it well, I you know, I just checked the dates. And we’re away in Turkey that week. And I really wanted Sim to go, I really wanted to Sim to because you know what, she used to work so hard. And I love everything you’re doing, I want her to be part of what you’re doing. And she recently she wants to talk about on social media. But she got, she finished her first year as a master’s in peds at Eastman she got a distinction. And she’s done really well. And I want her to mix with the positive minded females like you because sometimes he lacks that self confidence. And I think some you’re capable of doing wonderful things, and you are the injection of positivity she needs. And so September, she can’t make it. But the next retreat, I’m all well, I’m going to make sure I pack send her post first class to you to change her life.

[Hardeep]
Amazing Jaz or listen, you know, there’ll be plenty of these opportunities. But yes, no, you know, I would love love, love to spend time with Sim, she’s a fantastic woman. And absolutely, it’s about inspiring, empowering each other and lifting each other up. Because there is greatness within each and every one of us. And we just need to recognize our potential and be around that support network that drives you to be the best you can. So thank you so so much for giving me access to your incredible platform. And Jaz you inspire me every single day, every single day.

[Jaz]
Thank you. The feeling is very much mutual, Hardeep. Thanks so much. And I’m indebted to your family, your father, your brother, all these people in my life growing up in my journey of dentistry, you are important parts of it. And so so thanks for and I just want to say, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Thanks so much, Hardeeep for coming on once again.

[Hardeep]
My pleasure. Thank you.

Jaz’s Outro:
Well, there we have it guys, thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. Do reach out to Harddep on her platforms. In the show notes on protrusive.co.uk, I’ll put all the links, the brochure for her retreat and how to connect with Hardeep. If you enjoy this episode, would you consider leaving a review on your platform wherever you’re listening, whether it’s Spotify, Apple, whether on YouTube, comment below if that’s the case, a review would go a long way in making me see who’s listening who’s watching out there. As always, I really appreciate you being a true fan and listening all the way to the end. Thank you so much.