Are you enjoying a fulfilling career? Is this how you imagined life would be in Dentistry? If not, are you going to do anything about it? My guest, Laura Bailey did! Growth and improvement is not linear. Taking MASSIVE action is the answer!
Protrusive Dental Pearl: Write something down that you’re going to change in your life or your work, and then COMMIT to it until you get the desired result. I’ll say it again, commit until you get the desired result!
Here with me is someone who commits to take a massive action, Laura Bailey, whom I work with on Fridays (we are both a little crazy and we love cricket – dream team!)
“But you can’t expect to know everything and be able to do everything.” – Laura Bailey
In this episode, we discussed:
- Principals taking risk with their young associates – business side, implementing treatment?
- Building healthy relationships with colleagues
- Signs to look in a clinic for young dentists/therapists to work in
- Taking a leap of faith
- Having a nurse support system
Check out Laura Bailey on Instagram!
If you liked this episode, you might also enjoy How to Win at Life and Succeed in Dentistry – Emotional Intelligence
Click here for Full Episode TranscriptionOpening Snippet: And I think a lot of therapists, we just need to just be firm and stand our ground and eventually things will change. You know, we shouldn't be taking jobs that are paying you know, really low wages and have no nursing support or anything like that because it's just it's not fair on you as a clinician but it's also not fair on the patient...
Jaz’s Introduction: Have you ever been in a situation in your clinical practice that you’ve been unhappy or you felt something is lacking or you just think that where you need to be as a dentist, as a therapist, as a student, whatever you are, you’re not living to your full potential. I’ve been through something similar before and I guess I took massive action and I don’t wanna elaborate too much of my story because my guest today is just gonna do so much justice this episode and I want you to hear her story because it’s just so inspiring. I just love everything that Laura Bailey has achieved and you know, she’s going from strength to strength and I’m gonna introduce her properly in a moment, but to just rewind the year a little bit with myself, I when I woke up from my saturday job was working in this mixed fixed practice, I got to a stage where I had this sick feeling in my stomach and I looked at my wife and I said “sim, I don’t think I want to go to work today.” This is something that I’ve never felt this way forward, I’m a bit of a workaholic and I just I just felt like it was toxic, not because the practice was toxic, whatever it’s just that I at the time, in the system, in the place I was working, I felt that I was just overworked and I felt as though I was not achieving my goals as a dentist, achieving my goals as someone who loves to learn and grow as a dentist. So at that time I felt as though I had to take massive action and I took massive action because I handed in my notice and eventually we moved to Singapore, like we did something absolutely crazy. Okay, so the theme of this episode is to take massive action. Now, my favorite definition of massive action. What I mean by massive action is to commit to taking action until you get the desired result. Let me say it again, you commit to taking action until you get your desired result and it sounds very easy to do, but how many people think of us about doing something? They toy with an idea or the risk is too great and they and they shy away. What I mean is that you commit to something and then you work on it until it gets done okay? They make it even more tangible for you. Okay? Imagine you’re a dentist who has done lots of courses, now an implants, okay? And you’re just getting one or two implant cases a month and you’re like, whoa, this is I mean, I made this huge investment in time. I feel as though implants are my passion and I’m just not getting enough cases to actually make it worthwhile. And maybe then you lose your mojo, you lose your excitement, you lose your clinical hand skills that you paid so much money for on these courses, right? So what you gonna do, you gonna just, like, you do like a bit more a marketing campaign or you fall into the trap of just continuing on and plodding on and not really getting the result. You want, for example, Einstein’s definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome or different results. So if you just plodding along and you’re not really doing much, yes, you could be doing extra marketing campaigns, you could be spending an extra hour here and there doing something. But that’s not massive action. Okay, massive action for that dentist. In that exact scenario I mentioned, this is just me, just making it up. I’m just coming up with some suggestions is massive action for that. Dentist would be actually blocking out an entire day in their diary. Just blocking out and say this is for implants only. That’s it. I’m not gonna see anything else but implants on this day. And what you would do then is on the first few days where you don’t have any patients book, right? Because you just implemented it on that day, you don’t start seeing emergencies. You don’t start going on other courses which are not related to implants. What you then do on that day is during that time slot, you work on getting more implant patients in your chair, whatever it is. Ok, whether it’s you having to then work on your marketing campaign or you having to speak to local dentist for for referrals, whatever it needs to be. So, either you’re treating implant patients or you’re working on that goal to actually get implant patients to you. So that is the definition of massive action rather than just being comfortable and being doing these tiny little things which aren’t going to yield a lot of results. So that is one example. But wait till you hear this next example from laura, you’re gonna hear it from Laura. So Laura is the therapist that I work with on Fridays. me and her, she, we qualified 2013, so the same time she qualified from, from Manchester was in Sheffield and we met at where I work now on Fridays at the Richmond dentist with one of the, you know, the best people I could ever ask for as a principal. His name is hap, great guy, really, really forward thinking, excellent dentist, really high end kind of stuff. we just have, you know, we have this like happy little family that worked together on Fridays and she is just so much fun you might have seen on instagram, on Tiktok, She’s just the most bubbliest person. She’s just so enthusiastic and so much fun to be around. So me and her do get along quite well. So I’m excited to get this episode out to you. So listen to Laura’s story. She’s a dental therapist, okay. She’s a hygienist therapist. And so I don’t want you to think, oh yeah I’m a dentist or whatever and I’m not gonna learn something. No, no, no, This is far from the truth. Okay? She is someone who went from doing very commonly hygiene only. Okay? And taking a sabbatical in her career and coming back with a vengeance. And now she’s doing so many composite bonding cases that actually that’s become probably a bigger part of the list. Than the hygiene. Okay, it’s a new problem. It’s a problem that, you know, every therapist would love to have. Okay, so many therapists they qualify and then they D skill and they stopped placing composite. Okay. Not only that but Laura like the amount of courses she’s done in occlusion, in composite bonding of various different schools of thought is just inspiring. Okay so she has basically taken massive action. So this episode, if anything, I wanted to inspire you to take massive action which is the Protrusive Dental pearl for today, you need to take massive action just like how I described. I gave you one example and now the entire case study of laura where you can listen to now is an example of taking massive action. Take massive action today, write something down that you’re gonna do, you’re gonna commit to until you get the desired result.
Main Interview: Protruserati, I’m Jaz Gulati and let’s listen to laura on how to take massive action for success in dentistry, Laura bailey, my partner in crime, Welcome to Protrusive Dental podcast. How are you? I’m very good, I’m so excited to be on this podcast and I was absolutely honored when you asked ME. I’m so happy to have you on. to those that don’t know, me and laura worked together on fridays at the moment at the place called the Richmond dentist, which has been our home for many years NOW. You started their first IN FACT I met you, I think I first met you at the christmas party something, but let me tell everyone the story right, I don’t if you remember this laura, it was around about 2012 or 2013, I was newly qualified or about to qualify and I reached out to hap as someone I really respected, we connected over twitter and he said to me, hey jaz, why don’t you come down to our christmas PARTIES every year We have a christmas party And then I I saw you and we started to talk and you had just recently accepted the job I think correct me if I’m wrong in the moment you had recently accepted a job and then I found out you qualified from [manchester] thing and roughly same year and I said, wait how are you, how do you land working in this lovely private practice if you’re having a chat about that? Do you remember how I got it right, Laura? yeah, okay, so firstly I didn’t, I can’t even remember meeting you Jaz, I’m really sorry. if only I’d know. no, I am. Yeah, I think I just qualified for Manchester completely fresh out of uni 2013 and moved down to London and thought I’ll just look for jobs and it’s unheard of to, you know, get walk into a private practice job. But I I got this interview and I thought, why not just go along? And it was terrifying, obviously. But later that day I got offered the job and I couldn’t believe it. You know, I had no experience. But you know what happen is LIKE he just sees an opportunity and you know, he could see that I would work well there and obviously the rest is history But you know what Laura that speaks a lot about you because you say about it’s unheard of to, you know, whether your dentist or like self a therapist, you know, doesn’t matter which niche within density you’re in, but you’re right, it’s very difficult to just qualify and expect a private practice role. So firstly, kudos to you for even applying what was going through your mind when you’re applying like what would you at some point you like not click the send button because there’s no point or? Yeah, kind of to be honest, I did think, you know, why would they take me? I have no experience, but I think you’ve got to think. Yes, I’m just qualified and there’s probably a lot that I have to learn. But I also have you know, some good qualities in terms of like customer relations in service because I think sometimes we forget that you know, we’re just like dentist or therapist just drilling teeth, cleaning gums. But actually it’s so much more than it’s about building relationships, Rapport, empathy. and I think you know if you are out of uni focusing on something like that with those skills, you know, people will snap you up because you can learn the other stuff later, but having those core customer skills i think is really important. So I think that’s what got me the job. You’re so right, laura and I think hap really had his head screwed on, right and he still does [hap,] you’re still okay. He still has come on the podcast, he’s going to talk about how to absolutely dominate virtual consultations and stuff, so you know, he’s just making time with him. It’s funny, right, he’s my principal, and he can’t come on because it’s just such a busy guy, but he’s come on to to speak about that. But with him being him, I like the fact that he had this sort of agenda to hire for attitude, right? So he knew that he was taking a little bit risk with you and you know what? He took a risk. He took a risk with me as well because I actually interviewed for him before I went Singapore, like informally I came dressed in my suit and he was like, jaz it’s not an interview by the way. I’m like, yeah, I know, but I just want to make a good effort. And he sort of said, look, I’m not because at that time, at the time, as a one man show. him and the Endodontist, right? [Cesar. Hi, cesar.] basically he had never thought that at that time that his team would grow to what is now. So he’s now got three associates, yourself and[ Lourdes,] now there’s a couple therapist. We’ve got a [CAesar, the endodontist, he’s got a big team now, right? So he’s doing a lot of the more complex stuff, which is great. And he never thought his team will expand at that time. He was the gill clinic, it was a one man show and he took a, he saw something in me, just like you saw something you and he took a risks on us. So kudos to hap and kudos to any principle out there who’s willing to hire for attitude and forget the fact that, okay, this might not be the fully polished article just yet. But I see a spark in that person. What do you have to say to someone who’s listening right now, who is maybe a principal and they’re worried about taking a risk with a young dentist or a therapist who’s fresh out of school? yeah,I mean it just goes to show, you know what, I started there in 2013, it’s 2021. I had a little sabbatical, but apart from that, I’ve worked that practice. So when you find the right people work doesn’t feel like work, it feels like a little family. and have always says that and I think if you look for you know, the right traits and you know, honesty, humbleness, all of that, I think you can develop that person and almost like be a mentor to them. And I think actually, you know, hiring someone straight out of uni is such a good opportunity because they have no preconceptions and you know, you can really guide them. So I I would say it’s really, really great. You should definitely look in time someone brilliant. And I think I love working Fridays with you, laura because you have such a great energy and I love your tik toks and I think we feed ideas of each other, We do stupid dances sometimes, it’s just so much fun. And one of the values of our practice is good vibes, right? And I think when I, when I work with you and I work with [matt], when Debbie is on the desk. lizzie, everyone’s there that day, There’s vibe like no other. So I think every practice should aspire to that. What do you think having been in the industry while now. when you walk into the clinic, what is it that you’re looking for? that can tell a young therapist or young dentist? Okay, this is the clinic for me, any signs that you’ve noted that there is a hallmark of that kind of a clinic. I would say obviously you don’t want, you know, a place that had a high staff turnover because that indicates potentially problems. So, you know, staff have been there for a while, years. I would say you can tell pretty quickly, it’s just good vibes. It’s exactly that you go in. You know, the reception is really friendly, really lovely and you know, they ask the right questions of you, you know, Yes, they care. i think you can you can just pick up, it’s like 6th sense. But I think the biggest thing is the big staff being there for years and being really friendly with each other I totally agree with you to staff turnover is a real shame. And it’s one of the reasons I’ve said on the podcast before, one of the reasons I joined that practice recently last year in Reading is they had this list on the front when I was interviewing of name of every single receptionist and a nurse and how many years of service they have done throughout practice and it’s like 34 years, 28 years, 24 years, 17 years, 15 years. Like it’s crazy. So that’s one thing that attracted me. And so therefore I completely agree with you, laura, we’ll taking a little bit of a detour. I want to go back to your journey because I think your journey is so inspiring because the moral of your story. i’m not gonna ruin your story. But more of your story is you don’t have to have it all figured out so soon because one of the reason I have you on there is to inspire therapists and dentists because you do a lot of bonding cases. But most of the therapist that I know and work with and I love. So many therapists that I love shout out to morgan from [cooper] in summertown to love working with you and Louise. But what I find is that a lot of therapist, they are in a tough position. Yes, we will talk about the whole lack of a nurse assistance. We’ll touch on that because I think we should. I think you know this podcast has to touch on that. But I think you get into a habit of doing hygiene hygiene hygiene and then the therapy this gets left behind. You don’t get to your restorations, you lose confidence and therefore you never do a restoration again. So what I see in you is someone who had this interesting journey which we’ll cover now, but it wasn’t always, you’re doing bonding cases. You are predominately doing hygiene cases. Can you just tell us about your journey and how it evolved? Yeah. So I came out of university. I absolutely loved the therapy side of things. I was doing all these like buccal like restorations all inside [ledges]. I just love the creativity and all of that and came out and figured out that actually the world wasn’t set up that then for therapists really. so got this hygiene job. I worked in NHS practice as well as working at hap’s space and I just felt like I was becoming a scaling machine. You know, there was no scope to do any therapy. it was just gums, gums, gums and I felt massively out of practice. You know, the thought of picking up a hand piece was terrifying. You know, I had this fear of the pulp, which that’s so true. It’s honestly because in my final year at university, my last case presentation, I actually exposed and that haunted me and having, you know, not having picked up a hand piece for years and years and years. I thought, okay, well therapies obviously not going to happen. And I fell out of love with hygiene because you know, there is so much, you know, there’s only so much you can learn about perio and all of that and, and I feel like I want to constantly learn. So I left dentistry basically. I thought I wouldn’t come back. That’s crazy laura. So what made you, what made you finally decide that? Okay, That’s it. Yeah. I think it was when I woke up in the morning and I felt like anxiety and stress the fact that I had to go and do this job and pretend to be happy to patients when I wasn’t enjoying it. And I just thought I just, yeah, which sounds, it sounds really like awful that, you know, it got to that stage, but it literally was, you know, my back hurt. I was working far too many hours. I felt absolutely drained and I just lost my passion and I knew it wasn’t fair to patients, you know because it’s their health and all that. So I just thought I’ve got to leave. So yeah left and I still worked in dentistry in sort I was a clinical business development manager for a dental company but I quickly realized that I really did miss you know patients and that interaction and you know the feeling of having a team and that family union and all of that. So yeah, so I begged hap to give me his job back. I remember that, I remember that because at that point I started working for HaP and then he just sent me an email saying “oh laura starting in. how is that what?, This is amazing. So I was so happy to hear you are coming back but just to rewind a bit. before you left dentistry, your runaway period, your sabbatical, which is awesome by the way, I think that’s such a cool part of the story. You weren’t doing much therapy right? None, absolutely none. Which is common place, right? which is like most, which is what most therapists doing, right? I think you’re in a better position to tell me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah there’s definitely like a movement now. But back then there was yeah, there was mainly just like NHS therapists and there wasn’t that many jobs going. My question is then laura, when you came back then tell me about laura 2.0. like what was your mindset coming back? Because there was definitely a shift, There must’ve been a change because when you came back you’re like right we’re gonna start doing EMS Airflow, you begged hap for it, you twist his arm and then you’re like right I’m gonna I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do bonding cases like and I’m gonna do him to the fantastic high caliber that you do it, I’m so proud of you, I love seeing your cases, but how can you, how can you give this Laura juice to all the therapists out there so they can, they can be like laura like what is it like, how do you bottle that up? To be honest. I think it was, you know, starting to see the instagram scene, you know, people start to post more stuff and how you can market yourself and create a business. And I’ve always been kind of entrepreneurial and I thought this is really exciting, like I want to champion this, I want to, I want to do it. and I think it started it started with the ems, the gbt, Guided Biofilm Therapy and I just thought okay if I can solve the part of hygiene I just didn’t like which was the mindlessly ultrasonic scaling biofilm that you can’t see if I can solve that and make that really satisfying and then I can go on to maybe implementing some therapy. Then I could find a job that I’m going to be really really happy with for a very long time for years to come. So the GbT was first because that was pretty simple. wasn’t simple because it was obviously hard to get in but eventually it’s been amazing. Can we talk about that laura? can we talk about the conversations you have to have at work to really get hap or get your principal to really put their trust in you to make such a big move, which is like a big business decision as well. So tell us what you guys have to do, what sacrifice you have to make or whatever. to be able to make it happen so that maybe some therapists out there now who want to maybe implement because I’m a huge fan of ems that you know, you completely converted me into into just loving it what it does for our patients and our patients. Love it. But tell us about how it came with a fee increase, how the patients take it. How did changing the appointment slots go? Like how do you start implementing it? How do you have those difficult conversations? I think I do find a lot of therapist hygienist they struggle with, you know, approaching their principle and all of that. And I’ve done a webinar with SDA online with ems And it’s on their website. I think it’s about an hour. So if you want to learn more about it. But basically you just got to basically create your case so you need to understand all the clinical benefits but also the finances. I think we forget that dentistry is also business. It needs to function and make a profit. So what I did was I figured out how much the room needed to make per day, how much, how long it’s gonna take us for for us to pay off the machine and then how much increased price increase we need to go from there. And I think when you present it like that to a principal owner, it’s almost a no brainer because they can see how it’s gonna be paid for. They can see the clinical benefits, they can see how patients gonna be happier. So why would they say no, Right? And in terms of increasing the prices I haven’t had one single patient complained about the prices once they’ve experienced it. That’s the key word once I’ve experienced it. So they might have a little bit of Backlash initially. Like what you can just give us a tangible. I’m like percentage wise how much did you have to increase it or just the actual numbers if you want? Yeah so it went from 59 for half an hour to 75. So it is quite a lot. Yeah and I think even now it maybe should have been a bit more and people would have still been happy to pay for it. So I think to be honest price isn’t an issue once. Once patients experience it they really value the no pain, the warm water, all of that. So I wouldn’t worry too much about price increase to be honest, brilliant. Was our principle hap concerned about the price increase or you know hap’s mindset is pretty good when it comes to money. So I don’t know. I don’t know why how he responded. Was he was completely cool with that? Yeah let’s do it or was he a bit reserved? He was like let’s do it. Like I trust, trust you. Yeah that doesn’t surprise us. Yeah you need the principle with the right mindset about money because as you’ve seen the money is sometimes there’s something hap taught me actually that money is often a problem that the dentist has. It’s not the fee. The fee is something that is not bothering the patient. it is bothering the dentist more than anything. So that’s something that hap taught me actually. Would you agree with that? Yeah. You have to believe in your worth and the fees that you’re setting because otherwise patients, yeah they sense that you know you’re not comfortable with that. When you came back to the Richmond dentist and we reunited and I’ve seen your evolution into doing more bonding which is amazing. Tell us about that. Like so tell us about how the process started what you needed to do to get your [course cut] because I think essentially is about confidence, right? You have a sabbatical. So okay you come back into it, you start using the ems. Get your hand back into it. But then what made you do that quantum leap? And it is a quantum leap, right? to go to actually outside of your comfort zone to start offering bonding to patients. Tell us about that. Yes, So it’s probably the scariest thing I’ve ever done, You know, it’s terrifying. and a lot of it, we know when you’re starting out is faking it until you make it, you know, learning, doing youtube videos, but you know, I just, I just booked on, you know, the top three composite courses that I, people told me about. I booked them within a short, very short period and I’m just, I just said to myself, I’m gonna deal with that and I’m gonna go out the next week and I’m just, I’m going to get my first patient and my first patient was my sister. Yeah. and then after that I still was a bit nervous. So then I did a competition on instagram. and this was not only obviously to make awareness of my treatments, but it was also to basically do treatment on a patient that would be happy with anything. that sounds bad? that was it. Like you’re getting bonding for free it’s going to be good. It might not be perfect. And yeah and I just threw myself in the deep end and just try to learn as much as I could and obviously there’s still so much to learn. But yeah that’s why I just i just took the leap. I just took the leap. I love how you took that leap. And the things that really resonated me with that story and things I really want to just highlight again and repeat again is the big financial risk you took right? initially. That okay I’m gonna put these three big course. they’re not cheap right? Must spend over £3000 easily, right? to book these [clothes soak] and time at work to book these courses. So the huge investment you made initially and you know what a lot of dentists even go on the courses and they don’t apply what they know. So a) you took a huge financial risk and you have to risk it okay if you don’t risk anything, you risk everything. One of my mentors says that and then the other thing which reminded me of a thomas Edison quote, which is opportunity is missed by most people because it’s dressed in overalls and looks like work. okay? And you got to work laura, you saw this opportunity and instead of being like you know what it is gonna give me sleepless nights anxiety which it does, which you will, you really just took it on board and you went for it. So kudos to you and I love the way you did it in terms of treat someone you know, first treat a nurse, treat a family member. That’s a totally cool way to get your confidence levels up. You know, it makes so much sense and I love that you did that and then you have that competition. That’s genius. It’s truly your entrepreneurial side, showing there. that’s amazing. Anything more to add to that before we talk about then how you went further with that. yeah, I think probably the biggest thing is probably the occlusion side of things. I know obviously this is your, but I think if I could go back, I would definitely learn more about that at the beginning. 100% because I don’t think I was clued up at the beginning and there was lots of like chips and little things I wish I’d know well done for telling everyone, for sharing that experience because it is so important. And I think you’re one of the only therapists I know who have gone on like a proper occlusion course. You know [I’m gonna put my [feelers] out there. If there’s any occlusion courses out there for therapists. if not that I would love to put, you know, you can do a little tag team laura. You can mean you could do something like occlusion for edge bonding and bonding specifically for therapists because that needs to be out there, if there isn’t already. So I think that’s such a great point. Otherwise you will get [chipping] so you to appreciate that. So tell us about which occlusion courses you’ve done and which other courses that you found helpful in your journey to be able to provide a bonding to level and the quantity that you do now. Yeah. So I think so. My first course was the mini small makeover course with [Depeche Palmer]. that was amazing. It probably was a little bit out of my depth because it was the first course and they started talking about, you know, opaquers and tints and I was like, but then also like really, really excited. So probably that probably should’ve been my second course, my first and my second course after that was monik’s totally composite. the to get two day course. I really like that. That was fantastic because it included posteriors as well. and then smilefast, which I’m a big champion of. because they have so much support for therapists in terms of the design stage. And I think that’s something that you know, therapists might struggle with a little bit because you know, we have to be able to offer the patient all the options. I can’t say to a patient, I’m offering a composite bonding because that’s all I can do you need to know is this patient an ortho patient? If it is, I can refer you. so smilefast have that system where they basically get told, you know, what’s appropriate treatment. So that was one of the best courses. and then Occlusion, I obviously did your occlusion 2020, but it was an absolute marathon. and then I’ve done, Raj’s occlusion day and that was so intense. Like, I’ve never heard the word like, centric like occlusion and all these things and he and he’s just throwing out there and I was just absolutely mind blown at the end of it. So, that was fantastic. I learned so much about cases red flags because I think that’s something that maybe therapists don’t know enough about is occlusion, you know, picking up cases that you maybe shouldn’t be treating, you know, full mouth rehab, step occlusion and all that stuff, TmJ disorders. So I think, that was fantastic. And then recently I’m doing a postgraduate diploma in restorative aesthetic dentistry for therapists with a small academy. how far into that are you now, Laura? Yeah. So we just did our fourth day. I think we’ve got 10 over the course of the year. So, and we just did our occlusion course last weekend, which was amazing. We learned how to use face bows. Amazing. do you guys know any other therapist who does this level Of courses? I don’t think so. So, it just shows, right. This is why Laura is doing what she’s doing. I’m gonna really champion you, laura because I I love what you doing. I think it took some sacrifice. It took some risk. Okay, You are a risk taker. You are someone who is an action taker, laura. I mean, it’s, it’s clear to see that you are someone who takes a massive action. Whether it’s I’ve had enough, I’m leaving this profession to I’m going back, but I’m come back with a big vengeance. You make big decisions. And I think the key takeaway here is if you’re not happy with something, if you’re, if you’re struggling with something, if you’re waking up thinking, you know, what is this really what i’m gonna be doing? then take massive action, whether it’s, finding something else or going finally making a decision that you know what I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna take a huge risk and go on these courses to upskill and then start offering this to my patients because that’s really the, I didn’t, I didn’t actually title a lot of podcast episode I title before I record them. You’re one I left open because I really wanna see which direction is going to go in. But it’s been so inspiring. So I know I’m gonna have a real fun time thinking about a really apt title for you Is there anyone [at that?] Because the next theme i’m gonna touch on is just before we wrap up is about the whole nursing situation. But anything you want to touch on that FOR THE regarding the bonding side. Yeah, I would just say that, you know, you could never learn enough. I definitely think, you know whether you’re a dentist or therapist, I think therapists, you know, we’re trying to fight to be recognized. We always have. So I think, you know, the more knowledge you have and the more you work with your team as well, you know, Jaz, you’re so helpful. I know I can always just walk into your room and say, Hey, I’ve got this case, can we work together and all? i need your suggestions. I think being open and having good relationships with your colleagues and you know, good teamwork is so important. I know that you know, I need you guys not only just for prescription but also for your knowledge and all of that. So I think it should always be teamwork, not just me solely working by myself because I’ll never know and now I’ll always have stuff to learn that’s alright at your door And I think, you know you’re right, we, I think we do have a nice support network sometimes and I’ve got like a ceramic veneer case coming up really complex, an orthodontic case. I might just pitch it to hap AND LIKE Hap, Am I going the right way? equally with you we talk about bonding cases. We talk about perio cases together. And so it’s so nice to have that support network which is so key. So if you’re, if you’re working and you feel isolated then find and that support network doesn’t necessarily have to be at the workplace if you don’t have one. there’s so many online communities. If you’re enjoying our telegram group, we’ve now got the Protrusive Dental podcast the protruserati telegram group, which has been amazing. Like someone I like 2am asked a question about caries detection dye and by 5am. We have like five different like opinions on it like just like that. So it’s really cool to have a-support network like that laura tell me about what is the situation nowadays with the whole nurse thing. Like I just found it shocking when I qualified and you know, year by year by year that hygienist therapists are working alone. Like how we even supposed to think about implementing emS, implementing bonding when you’re working alone, it’s just not gonna happen. That’s the first huge barrier. What is the state of play with that? So I think it’s still a little bit stuck. We’ve got a long way to go. People are definitely, you know, opening up to the idea of having a nurse. But I think, yeah, it’s still a long way to go. I when I first qualified I didn’t have a nurse, but when I came back I basically said I want one, otherwise I’m not going to work. And I think a lot of therapists, we just need to just be firm and stand our ground and eventually things will change. you know, we shouldn’t be taking jobs that are paying, you know, really low wages and have no nursing support or anything like that because it’s just, it’s not fair on you as a clinician, but it’s also not fair on the patient. I worked the other day, I think one of our nurses was sick or whatever, so I ended up working the day without a nurse and I was exhausted. I couldn’t, I couldn’t write my notes up properly because I was too busy cleaning. I was too busy cleaning instruments, like you need to be able to focus on the patient and the only way to do that is to have nursing support. so yeah, I think it has to be a must, you’re right. Last friday was really tough actually. So one of our nurses, she had flooding in the kitchen sort of that and i was like So, she’s coming. She’s coming. She’s coming. and bless you, you have to sacrifice your nurse to come to me because I think so, thanks so much. But you’re right. You know, everyone should have a nurse and we can’t possibly tackle that in this episode. But maybe this episode will help to change the mindset of some principles who want to be forward thinking Or some therapist, maybe what you’ve done here, Laura is given them that spark to help them, given that confidence is to stand their ground. laura, this is awesome. You’ve covered all my questions. But is there anything else you want to just this episode’s been one of those inspiring ones I recorded. I really loved it. But can tell anything else. I feel like you got more in you. Is there anything any message you want about the therapist? Young therapists are starting their journey? I think this is something that I did when I first decided to put myself out there, What you do is you you’re speaking to a patient about, you know, you know, initially I like how you know what they want their teeth white or they want something changed and you have the conversation with them, you talking through some of the options and you tell them that you’ll write them a treatment plan, you take photos, whatever. And then when the patient leaves you go, oh my God, no, I gotta learn how to do that. Because what you what you do, honestly, what you do is you basically set yourself here and then you give yourself two weeks to learn how to do it and then that’s how you learn and grow because that’s the only way to keep adapting. As always. I wouldn’t have done anything. You know when I first did you know 3-3 there’s I was absolutely terrified and I was as I said Googling, Youtubing asking all my peers for help. But as soon as you do it, you learned so much by doing it and you just need to put yourself out there. So I would say, you know, take that leap of faith and just go for it. That was so, so, so real. That was so real. I loved it reminded me of another quote. Let me share this quote. Okay, so what you said there was this okay, it’s Richard Branson’s quote. If someone offers you an amazing opportunity and you’re not sure if you can do it, say yes, then learn how to do it later. Yeah. Like it’s not like you’re doing stupid stuff but it’s stuff that you have you been on the course of the stuff but it’s the first time that you’re gonna do it wherever but you say yes but then you figure it out later and the same [vein] I’m a big fan of and this is the whole episode comeback courses and stuff I get asked by dents all the time at which course I do blah blah. So the main thing I want to message, I want to get out is the following that with the courses. There’s something called just in Time Learning because I know that there’s so many things I want to learn out there. There’s so many things I don’t know and I need to learn but I can’t just like randomly wake up today. But okay today I’m gonna learn about improving my root canals for curved teeth. But I haven’t got a curve tooth lined out for the next three years and I just refer them anyway. But if you actually do just in time learning I.e you find that case who needs, who’s got that curve root first and then you say, okay, is this pushing it too much or is this slightly above and beyond my comfort zone? If you’re slightly beyond your comfort zone, you say to the patient, you can go to a specialist, but I’m happy to give it a go as well. And if the patient happy, then you go about okay speaking to mentor, speaking to endodontist, call Ammar Al Hourani and asking about curved molars, that kind of stuff. And then you give it your best shot. And in this world of defensive dentistry, I think there’s still a place for this because this is how we grow. Yeah. You can’t expect to know everything and be able to do everything. Yeah, Laura absolutely love that. Thank you so much for coming to podcast. This has been absolute sensational. I want every single therapist, every single dentist in the world to hear this because this is gonna be just next. I was gonna get people’s people can be bouncing at the end of this episode, like, yes, I’m ready for the world, I’m gonna do everything. So thank you so much for sharing your journey, sharing your vulnerability, sharing your fears, sharing, putting yourself exposed. And I mean, that was such a lovely way. Like, thank you so much, because that’s how we inspire others. Like sharing our lowest lows in our weakest points and then and how we can build everyone up. So laura, you’ve been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much. Well, thank you so much for listening all the way to the end guys. What did I say? Right. I told you Laura story would be so freaking inspiring. Like she’s just an amazing person and I just love how real she was. She was like, you know, real talk. So I, I appreciate that so much from Laura. And if you’re a new listening to podcast, welcome. Thanks for listening. If you’re already one, the protruserati thank you so much for returning time and time again, Make sure on our facebook group, The Protrusive Dental community. We also have such a thriving telegram group. Initially, when someone suggested about having a WhatsApp group, I had my reservations, right? I was like, well, I just don’t want to be like another one. These groups where people are just spamming the whole time or one of these dead groups where no one actually talks or whatever. And I had my reservations and then I made the WhatsApp group and it got completely oversubscribed. So now we moved to telegram, right? So if you wanna join the telegram group, go to protrusive.co.uk/telegram PROTRUSIVE.CO.UK/TELEGRAM Okay. And make sure you actually have the app telegram download it. Okay. Obviously, and then that will take you to my group and you can join it and it is amazing. There’s about 270 of us at the moment and such an engaged group. People are just asking random questions and everyone is so helpful. So the reason I think the group works so well is that we have people who are cut from the same cloth, people who are just passionate about dentistry and just want to help each other kind of person who listens like you to this podcast. So join the telegram group and one more favor please is if you listen on apple, would you mind giving this a rating? Okay, just give it a rating. Give me some feedback and leave a comment on Apple podcast. I really appreciate that. I’ll catch you in the next episode. I’m gonna launch my podcast [kinda] soon and one more update is august will be a month of back to basics, like quite a few of you messages saying Jaz, I love the podcast, but some of them are really complex. Can you just dedicate some episodes to back to basics? So I’m gonna cover the perio, the basis of perio, basis of occlusion, treatment planning 101 and a few others and like the fund something fundamental like when to actually restore or when to actually drill a restoration. What actually defines leakage in Amalgams? At what point should you say? Okay, this Amalgam has failed and this amalgam is doing okay. Something so fundamental, but something that is so open to debate amongst different dentists. I’ve got a really awesome dentists coming on for that as well. Thanks for listening all the way to the end and I’ll catch you in the next episode. Same time, same place.