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‘What on earth is Clubhouse?’ I hear you ask. Well, it’s kind of like being in a Whatsapp room with Richard Branson…and instead of typing you’re all just leaving live voicenotes. It’s like a Live Podcast and you get to contribute (sometimes). It’s also like a cult – it’s super addictive and invitation-only (at the time of publishing this).
Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below!
My favourite thing about Clubhouse is that sometimes you’re not in the right state or environment to be on video – this audio-only platform has gained a lot of popularity!
I have seem some great Rooms (like a Whatsapp group) within Dentistry where a lot of knowledge bombs have been dropped. There is something beautiful about Live content that is difficult to get a replay for – the FOMO factor is real!
In this Interference Cast I am joined by Kevin Rose who helps drive better conversations in Dentistry.
TLDR: I think Dentistry has a home in Clubhouse – we can learn and share great content (live podcast, right?) – we can also use it to change public perceptions of Dentistry.
It’s probably not going to land you many patients in your chair, if that’s why you’re on it. You need to see a bigger picture!
Click below for full episode transcript:
Opening Snippet: Hello, Protruserati. I'm Jaz Gulati and welcome to this interference cast on something very topical, it's clubhouse.Jazβs Introduction:Β
You were thinking what the hellβs clubhouse, donβt worry weβll cover what clubhouse is but before you continue itβs basically a new app itβs like a new form of social media where youβre just listening and youβre speaking thereβs no video involved so imagine like the way I described in this episode is itβs like a WhatsApp group except everyoneβs constantly like talking and interacting in that way rather than by video so thatβs what clubhouse is.
Is there a place for dentistry in clubhouse? I think there is and hopefully youβll be able to see that there is a role that all dentists can have in clubhouse. So if you are already on clubhouse join the room, the clinical dentistry and communication room. Iβm calling it teach preach and leech and I nicked it from a group I am part of in Singapore and this is going to be a room to just discuss clinical dentistry, your clinical issues I think in the next episode weβre discussing composite veneers versus ceramic veneers, the doβs and donβts.
The sort of things on case selection for each of those and why one may be superior than the other that kind of stuff so itβs like a live podcast if you like. So join me on Wednesday evenings at 8 p.m. Iβll put the link on protrusive.co.uk and every time I go on clubhouse at the moment Iβm putting on the Protrusive dental community Facebook group. Joining me in this episode is Kevin Rose, Iβll let him introduce himself in the episode so I hope you enjoy and brings you value about clubhouse in dentistry.
Main Episode:
Kevin Rose, welcome to the podcast how are you?
[Kevin]
Very, very, well indeed thank you good morning. How are you?
[Jaz]
Very good, thank you. Itβs my sonβs first day at nursery today so I am actually super anxious, excited like heβs had like these little settling sessions but todayβs like first whack so yeah Iβm kind of scared.
[Kevin]
How old is that these days? When they go to nursery is it four, three?
[Jaz]
It depends. Heβs 19 months so it really depends like some kids I know been you know in nursery since who are six months old or young so heβs 19 months and we thought this is the best time now for him to start picking learning a few extra things plus weβre moving out soon so at the moment I donβt know if you know, Kevin I live with my parents so since I came back from Singapore 2017, been living my parents. Finally fleeing the nest because itβs just the way it worked out. Itβs somewhere closer to work so a can cut out the commute and then so this is a big chapter coming up in my life.
[Kevin]
So you need to delegate parenting for a few hours a day definitely that makes a lot of sense now yeah I get it mine are much older.
[Jaz]
How old are yours?
[Kevin]
Oh crikey 21, 23 and 18 nearly yes there you go.
[Jaz]
Well the first thing for some reason the first thing I want to ask Kevin about your, of course you canβt really call them children but your offspring is are they on clubhouse?
[Kevin]
Theyβre not. I donβt think so but then thereβs been a bit of a social media blackout between myself and my children for many years. I think itβs just mutual respect we donβt touch on each otherβs social media worlds. So I donβt know, we do Strava actually quite a bit with my kids I was interested yesterday my one of my daughters actually strava mowing the lawn which I thought was quite impressive actually thatβs keen isnβt it? Thatβs keen to get the miles in but no I donβt know and clubhouse for me is literally this is day 15 and I find it fascinating for no doubt reasons we will discuss. So what about you?
[Jaz]
Absolutely Iβm on day 10 of clubhouse and to fair I was I got my invite like ages ago but thing is Iβm on android so then I was just thinking okay I need to get on clubhouse, it would complement the podcast like a live version really well and it sounded really intriguing and then I said to my dad βDad I think Iβm thinking Iβm getting like a second-hand iPad, iPhone.β Heβs like, βSon what are you doing we have 5, 15 iPhone in the cupboard!β So I open the cupboard and literally Iβve got like so many old iPhone and the newest one was an iPhone 7 which blew my mind.
[Kevin]
Wow.
[Jaz]
I know right? What is your one sentence pitch? What do you do for dentists?
[Kevin]
I get them to think I get dentists and thatβs it I really do and I believe that that experience within and outside of dentistry, yes okay I can at 12 years I could probably talk, I could probably talk my way around the dental surgery right? I kind of get the lingo and I get bp lingos and I get I know what a flat plastic is now by the way. Who knew right? I was like made of plastic turns out it isnβt but yeah so I get that bit which means you can hold a conversation and Iβve got all of the stuff if you like, the things you would expect from a coach or a consultant or a trainer to bring with them into any business. What I really believe, Jaz is that the difference between those that defined success is probably another conversation but I really believe that the difference between those that really succeed and donβt is actually itβs a small percentage of difference and that difference I think comes down to the conversations that you have with yourself as a business owner, that internal dialogue and the conversations that you have with others and in a dental practice those conversations are with patients and members of your team and if you think about it the day-to-day challenges of running a business tend to be more about people and customers thatβs where the difference is. So I think yeah, what do I do? I get dentists to think why is that really important because thatβs the extra 20% is the difference between a good day and a bad day and I do that because I ask lots of questions and Iβm curious and I give a damn thatβs my philosophy on it.
[Jaz]
Brilliant. Well weβre going to talk today about clubhouse so for those listening right now I mean Iβve done it already where weβve been on the big dental groups and I said hey you know weβre hosting a clubhouse room and you know what the number one question is right when we say βhey join our clubhouse roomβ, can you guess Kevin? Whatβs the number one question that dentists ask about clubhouse?
[Kevin]
Oh let me guess is it how to use it to attract patients by any chance?
[Jaz]
No itβs very much more fundamental than that, itβs what the hellβs clubhouse right? So literally weβve been absorbed into this because Iβm really addicted to it now and Iβm sure youβve been in loads of rooms and getting a lot of value and stuff and then thereβs a good and the bad and weβre going to get to that in a moment but most people are still that phase because weβre pretty much early adopters because itβs in my early. 60% of the world uses android and itβs on iOS at the moment I think only about 6-7% in the world use iOS in the first place. So itβs a small offering at the moment, itβs a small community, itβs an interesting community but essentially for those listening you donβt know what clubhouse is imagine a radio show on your phone on demand but with your mates. Itβs like a WhatsApp group but you talk except youβre not typing but except on this WhatsApp group you got like you know the most successful billionaires in the world potentially sat in this WhatsApp group of yours. Whatβs your take on clubhouse? How do you explain what clubhouse is to someone?
[Kevin]
Well Iβm going to steal your definition there actually because I struggle to explain it and Iβm a bit of a, I am an ambassador for it. I keep bragging on about it to people. I mean my take on clubhouse is that number one actually, itβs not obvious. Itβs not obvious how it works or what to do with it. The first time I was asked to speak, it caught me off guard and I didnβt even have the microphone settings, the privacy settings on my phone correct. So I went I was pressing all the buttons trying to unmute myself and inevitably with clubhouse probably doing something else at the same time and I guess thatβs also the beauty of it. I think I was it was quite early on I was having a cup of tea or something making breakfast and there are some I was asked to speak on clubhouse. In terms of where we go with it and what opportunities it provides I want to put that into context because my job is to get us thinking right and I say thatβs what I do I ask the big questions that perhaps other people donβt think or scared or donβt want to face up to and the bigger question itβs always been my thing for 12 years now is how the hell, how the heck donβt we get more, can we get more people to go to the dentist? Why doesnβt everybody go to the dentist? And you know where Iβm going with this there is something, some hang-ups people have about dentists and dentistry and yet everyone that goes to dentists raves about their dentist they talk about their own dentist and their dentist is special and yet you get these massive percentages of the population and these numbers are replicated globally Iβve got clients in other parts of the world thereβs big sways of the population who just donβt get it and thatβs not all to do with NHS and affordability there is I think a bit of antipathy towards the profession and by the public and theyβre misunderstood and they assume that every all the phrases βIβve never met a poor dentist.β Well Iβve met some dancers that are struggling right now but you wonβt get that much, you probably wonβt get that much sympathy from the public if you were to go and say that.
So thatβs the issue that I think weβre struggling to fight with as a profession and I think itβs more of a PR issue than a marketing issue in many ways and I mentioned that because thatβs how I think we use clubhouse to our best advantage.
[Jaz]
Iβve been using clubhouse in a completely different way I come from very much as an extension of my podcast how can I serve the community of dentists because so far youβre right, Kevin I go on clubhouse and the majority of the room so they call rooms in clubhouse where you join in and thereβs people on the stage just call the stage with people at the top and theyβre like hosting and moderating and then Iβm just explaining for those who donβt know what it is you raise your hand virtually and then you call up to the stage if you get your turn you can put your contribution in and so the kind of themes Iβm coming up with is helping dentists which is the main one Iβm getting involved with clinical stuff which is not happening that much moment but Iβm hoping to change that but itβs more about marketing, how to get Invisalign number one. How to attract more patients? How to use social media in Dentistry? Those are the kind of rooms Iβm seeing, how to acquire your practice and that kind of stuff. So everything that you see on all the other extensions social media weβre seeing it turn up on clubhouse. Now what I love about clubhouse is you vote with your ears right? If because Iβve been to a few rooms now, Kevin and all Iβm seeing is one host or moderator is just completely just, ah this moderate is awesome follow them this is amazing and everyoneβs just sort of digging each other up but no oneβs actually giving any value. So you vote with your ears you just leave if you donβt want to be in that, you just leave. So thatβs why Iβm enjoying the most about clubhouse.
[Kevin]
Yeah and thatβs youβve I think thereβs a meeting of mines itβs yes because thatβs my Iβm going to say concern with a very small c itβs not a problem, itβs not that itβs wrong. I think at the moment almost inevitably with this being a new technology and youβre right those rooms largely seem to be about how to get more as if weβre chasing something and thatβs fine.
[Jaz]
I mean thatβs our place, itβs got a place and people want to learn that and thatβs got a place that seems to be the majority at the moment.
[Kevin]
Yeah absolutely and of course you have to have that in business okay and thatβs part of what I do you know part of what I do is help people get busier practices. No oneβs trying to go backwards generally in life or business and I support that. The trick I think weβre possibly missing is if all we use clubhouse for is just another platform to say exactly the same things in a slightly different way then I think it would be A) itβs a shame because I think weβre missing an opportunity. Going back to my point about the PR problem of dentistry. So yeah if you are a member of the public and letβs just take the obvious one at the moment and youβre looking for some kind of removable clear aligner teeth straightening system thereβs plenty of choice out there. And thereβs plenty of dentists on clubhouse talking how to give patients choice and to be their choice, thereβs a lot of that going on thatβs what youβre alluding to and thatβs great if youβre already in the market as a member of the public for have for looking for that but what about the millions, millions what are we now 60 million people in a small island most of whom are born with the teeth in their mouths that theyβre going to have for the rest of their lives and what half of them regularly attend the dentist thereβs enough out there, Jaz right? Thereβs enough people out there for us all. What I think weβre missing is this hump that people have to get over to at least to even pick up the phone to a dental practice so this is where I think clubhouse has its biggest opportunity. Now I wrote a blog about this last week when I google.. and itβs not my greatest work because I think Iβm still finding my feet with this myself but when I googled clubhouse last Wednesday or Thursday I got to the end of the internet right? I finished the internet. There were only 22 pages 22 pages about clubhouse now thereβs a caveat there google then said weβve removed certain things to avoid duplication right but in essence what Iβm saying is its new.
Now if you canβt google the answers to something heaven forbid what have we got to do, Jaz weβve got to start talking to each other. Weβve got to start asking questions, weβve got to start thinking, weβre going to start doing our own research and I think thatβs to me it just got me really thinking hang on a minute if clubhouse is that new that we run out of internet at the moment in terms of what to do with it then itβs finding its own feet the internet is not giving us the answers to what we do with clubhouse okay? Weβve had to work it out for ourselves and thatβs what weβre doing thatβs what this conversationβs about but that then got me thinking well what if youβre a member of the public who isnβt getting the answers you want from the internet as well okay? So there are questions that you would want to ask as a patient which I donβt think youβre going to get the answer to until you look somebody in the eye and to express their feelings, their emotions the internet doesnβt really serve the limbic system well the inner chimp, the fight or flight it doesnβt it delivers facts. It delivers facts in a bit of opinion and opinion itβs harder for the internet to connect emotionally and yet if you think about it you know if you businesses crave to have what we have which is the ability to emotionally connect with other human beings you guys do it all day long you know big companies try and do it with cars and with cans of fizzy drinks and with inanimate objects to get that emotional connection and yet you guys have got that emotional connection so Iβm bringing bring this right back into clubhouse in a second I promise you.
So here we have I think, if you want to attract more people into your dental practice and most people would say that they do okay? And by the way when you say attract Iβm talking about attracting and retaining loyal and motivated patients and it not just to be about the numbers to be a there to be a quantity but also a qualitative outcome the things that we really need to measure and it gets hard because it gets subjective okay but I mean I was thinking about this the other day I mean what I would measure if I was a dental practice and I was also doing clear aligners Iβd also be measuring how many of my customers bring those aligners back for recycling thatβs just as important and yet itβs not the obvious thing so we have an opportunity here to use, to think about the where the internet lets us down as a member of the public because it doesnβt answer the real personal questions that you have to pick up the phone for, you have to get on a messenger for and guess what in the last 12 months you actually can occasionally speak to a dentist on a video at home on an evening and of course itβs absolutely transformed how we interact with people with patients because they do get to look you in the eye thatβs why video consoles are so successful. So there you have it what where do we go with this well the internet isnβt the answer, the internet isnβt the answer to all of this. Engaging with people eye to eye if you like it is the answer. Weβve proved it with video consoles and I think even though clubhouse is just an audio format thatβs where I think thereβs still a massive opportunity which is yet as yet untapped from what iβve seen yes we can talk about using it to attract patients who are probably already in the business of looking for a dentist I get that but what about those that arenβt? That those that donβt get it yet? So we can use clubhouse I think to and again this is a working title but to bring people almost behind the scenes you know how when businesses have a bit of a PR issue they take the cameras, they bring the reporters behind the scenes and they show them what and all and actually and itβs not all pretty but it does change peopleβs perceptions I didnβt realize it was like that if you look at over the years businesses that have used that easyjet for example whoβd have thought that people shouting at the check-in desk at easyjet would actually build the brand and yet thatβs what you had. Weβve seen it with restaurants and right now and again a bit of google research thereβs only 22 pages to look at I know them all the company that owns burger king and itβs a big restaurant chain iβve never heard of actually. Theyβve got clubhouse, theyβve got something called open kitchen. So what theyβre doing is as a member of the public you can actually go behind the scenes and talk to the chef of a restaurant chain, who in turn owns burger king or the chefs. So you can actually so what can you see, where weβre going with this is that going to sell more burgers tomorrow because of that directly? Well youβve got to forget that youβve got to be detached from that youβve got to look at that bigger picture. So I could be cynical and say itβs junk food, itβs pollution, itβs packaging, itβs making kids fat and all the rest of it but youβve got to admire being brave enough to bring the public and bring them so they can see something from the inside out.
Now thatβs a very long answer to how do you use clubhouse well you use it in exactly the same way. So you use clubhouse to bring skeptical people okay not just the fans not just the ones with the aligners and the white teeth and the veneers okay? Skeptical people who are on that scale of complete fear and anxiety through to just having read a tabloid newspaper once okay and everything in between. Bring skeptical people to see what itβs really like. Okay I mean look you know this conversation now okay but donβt pay the patients donβt know that dentists are bending over backwards to try and help the public. Patients think itβs hard to get a dentist and yes I know itβs hard at the moment relatively because of covid all the rest of it but all these myths and memes and prejudices that the public have letβs debunk them but you wonβt debunk them by just saying βIβm a dentist. Hereβs my opening hours. Hereβs a special offer we do straightening, whitening, implants and all the rest of it. Thatβs what you do okay and Iβm trying to avoid stealing Simon Sinekβs quote but itβs almost inevitable you have to anyway yeah people donβt buy that they buy why you do it so whatβs that why and what a better way to communicate something that can be quite ineffable because itβs a feeling than a conversation to really get that passion across.
[Jaz]
Kevin, Iβm just going to object because Iβm going to sort of debate with you a little bit all in good nature. So firstly I was listening very carefully thereβs a few points you said. Firstly I love the whole burger thing okay is the fact that they got the open kitchen on clubhouse. Is that going to sell more burgers tomorrow? Who cares. Thatβs not what itβs about okay so I love that firstly okay? So from that I can extrapolate that as dentists we can serve our patients not just our direct patients but humans. Letβs serve humans, letβs improve their perceptions of dentistry because we can do wonders with that so thatβs I definitely agree we can do that and I think we should because I think itβs very altruistic because when iβve hosted a room about clinical dentistry, once you geek out with other dentists you know how sad am. I there was someone from Harvard, there was someone from UAE, thereβs some from Spain, all dentists were just learning each other pitching different scenarios. Love that.
Now here is the skeptic who wants to attract more patients to our practice maybe clubhouse is not the best place for them because when they host a room all about how to overcome your dental fears ,well youβll have a patient from San Diego youβll have a patient from Nice, youβll have a patient from Shanghai I donβt know Iβm making these up right? Maybe one person, one patient is 30 miles away from that may come see you. So maybe itβs not the best reason to attract patients your practice at the moment with the small scale it is maybe in the future it could be used in that way to sort of help people overcome their fear and then eventually come to your practice but at the moment itβs not about that. At the moment itβs about raising the profile of dentists, helping the humans the greater good of dentistry so I think thatβs where Iβm seeing it go at the moment.
So thatβs my only objection because you said about emotional connection I think you can get that emotional connection through YouTube like so many dentists I know have made wonderful YouTube videos where look at the camera in the eye and say you know what my practice is in Reading, hereβs where I work, hereβs how. Hereβs what we do, this is what weβre about. Where do you see the role of that versus clubhouse and how can clubhouse compete with that?
[Kevin]
Well itβs an audio format only so but YouTube tends to be static doesnβt it? I know billions of things get uploaded every day but itβs not quite, itβs not a dialogue. Itβs a recording I guess? Thatβs the fundamental difference. and youβre right going back to those things I was expecting you to like beat me up then as when you said I want to challenge you and Iβm happy to be challenged on this thereβs nothing to challenge. Itβs just an idea about something that hasnβt yet been done. So is there a right or wrong? Is it limited? Yeah if youβre hoping to go on clubhouse and fill tomorrowβs white space forget it. Absolutely, forget it you know or catch up on some UDAs thatβs not what itβs about and if youβre looking to you know do more dentistry tomorrow because of it no way, youβre kind of missing the point thereβs a principle which Iβve always believed in and in the end it cost me a career I left a profession because of this. To be detached from if you like the outcome the end result whatever you want to call it thatβs a good thing in life and certainly in business because people will see through it otherwise and I do believe itβs actually effectively GDC 1.1 right? So not of a vested interest.
So itβs a good thing from a regulatory point of view so it was always a good thing. So go on clubhouse to sell some dentistry, no bring a patient in your surgery to sell some dentistry and make some money good luck with that. In the short term fine maybe youβll get away with it but if you want to change perceptions and it is a bit ultra I mean Iβm an idealist right? I get that and I just think that I donβt know if this is a phrase or not whether Iβve made this up but something about you know all the boats sail into the harbor better on a rising tide I donβt know Iβve heard that somewhere but you get the gist of that we, if we all and thatβs the other thing about clubs by the way I think itβs got a huge collaborative even this conversation came from a half past seven in the morning, clubhouse message or something when youβve got so many millions of people who are missing out on basic dental care but for the lack yet of having a good conversation with a front-line dental health care provider well if weβre all having better conversations we all benefit if everybodyβs having better conversations with the public generally then everybody more people go to the dentist so why make it a one-man crusade to get more patients in within your immediate postcode donβt see it like that.
[Jaz]
Brilliant and because I just want to clarify that those thinking theyβre going to jump on clubhouse and get those patients and youβve nailed it there so.
[Kevin]
Please donβt try and do that get off clubhouse if thatβs what youβre trying to do because itβs not going to work, itβs not going to work. Itβll ruin it. Itβs not Facebook, letβs not spoil it.
[Jaz]
Exactly and I know youβve got a meeting so Iβm going to wrap it up by say to summarize a and advocate what Kevin said there. Have conversations have better conversations and have or create emotional connections and you can do that through many mediums. Clubhouse just offers you another way where you can be doing anything youβve been washing the dishes you can be doing any anything you can imagine but thereβs no video involved so thereβs a beauty of clubhouse which Iβm really enjoying as well itβs on the go you can learn a lot, you can just be a fly in the room because sometimes you say hey I wish I was a fly and on the wall when these billionaires are having conversations and those rooms exist and theyβre fantastic all right so I know you got to go but is there anything you want to wrap up with my friend? And thanks so much for coming on.
[Kevin]
Well thank you iβve enjoyed it and it was all a bit on the hoof. We didnβt talk or prepare for this it was just letβs just talk about clubhouse those are my thoughts and youβre right that fly on the wall thing there. It is thatβs a bit like what clubhouse is youβve got a chance to change the perception of going to the dentist in a conversational way and thatβs what clubhouse I think itβs one of the biggest opportunities and to sign this off the internet isnβt personal okay? Itβs a library of things and like any like a real tangible library youβre not allowed to talk, youβre not allowed to interact right? I mean Iβm old enough to remember libraries I used to go there to go and tell it to go to get books out after school and look at teletexts like it was the internet of the day right I mean rubbish by comparison but you werenβt, youβre not the whole point of the library itβs almost a a stereotype situation just take it all in, itβs one way. So the internet is just an online library. So who do you talk to directly when youβre searching for stuff on your computer you canβt and what are we missing what are we missing more of in dentistry? Conversations with people not just those that have already bought the idea of going to the dentist those that might just need a bit more encouragement and reassurance so I think any platform that allows us to talk directly with our customers or patients in this case and including from this perspective of I would say just recall it from the inside out wow that thatβs how you change peopleβs attitudes and perceptions towards something and thatβs a wonderful opportunity so that wasnβt a very brief answer I canβt give you brief answers on this stuff because-
[Jaz]
Weβve stuffed that one out Kevin but we enjoy your rambling thatβs fine thanks so much I know you got a meeting to go to as well Iβll be taking my credit tonight soon. So thank you so much and yeah Iβll put this up very soon because this is very current so Iβm not going to delay on this one weβll get out very soon buddy.
[Kevin]
Iβll see you on clubhouse no doubt okay.
Jazβs Outro:
See you clubhouse. Bye Kevin.